mrfook said:
Anybody who thinks that their spending power/disposable income could not be seriously reduced in the very near future is being unrealistic.
Now here's the thing. This should have a positive effect, as companies try to retain custom in an ever-shrinking moneypot. But the worst customer service comes from those companies who we have to use. Health insurers. OV-chipkaart/NS. Gas/electric/telecoms companies. We might spend less with them, but we can't avoid them. In fact, it's likely to lead to worse confrontations in future as we fight over every euro, whereas now we let many things go because it's not worth the hassle (or 10 cents per minute charge).
I'm kinda sad to see you turn this self-centred, Fookie. Perhaps you're having a troll-day, but there are very real victims of this 'customer service'. One day, your health/quality of life/future, might depend on some receptionist in hospital doing their job properly, and perhaps they'll not do their basic job and leave you suffering; in complete, un-relievable agony even, for weeks more than necessary. Perhaps they will even brand you a liar rather than investigating to see if they (or one of their colleagues) have actually made a mistake.
Customer Service is not always about disposable income: sometimes it REALLY matters, and when it does, the consequences can even be deadly.
osita said:
If I pay a euro for ten minutes of help on a helpline, I expect help - an investigation of the facts, correction of errors, or a solution (even if that solution is to call me back later). I don't care if they have a hangover, an STD or their monitor lizard caught 'flu and died - ****, it's easy enough to 'skip' a day here if you don't feel up to it - my kids' teachers seem to do it every week, recently! If they were my staff, they'd get a 1 year contract and nothing at the end if they ever acted less than professional. I don't blame the newcomers to the labour force particularly, because they are joining an existing poor service culture, and there is no comeback from their managers, who also subscribe to the 'cant help wont try' culture, because they simply don't know any better. The answer is training, and perhaps a small reward scheme if they get positive feedback on a randomised email 'how did we do?' survey. Customers who do receive good service tend to be happy to see someone rewarded for going the extra mile. I taught basic customer service as part of a business module back in the UK, many years ago. One of the pillars, if you like, was that an unhappy customer will tell 15 people about their poor experience while a happy customer will only tell 3. Here, it's completely the opposite - we are so gobsmacked when someone does meet and surpass our expectations, we remember them as being the exception to the rule. At the end of the day, choice is our friend and when enough people walk away and their cashflow dries up, perhaps companies will see the benefit of fostering relations with repeat customers. Until then, they won't learn.
I did recently hear that apparently the poor customer service culture here had been acknowledged by the government or some official lot and they were going to seek to provide extra training and improvement, as it was considered bad for tourism? I don't have a reference for that but I definitely saw something to that effect.
Also amusingly I was just thinking about the fact people here are surprised and comment on good service, because of low expectations. Yesterday I was talking to my boyfriend's parents and they had just been to a restaurant the night before for some family do. They saw fit to say it was a good restaurant. Reasons: food was awful. But the staff were nice! They gave them new drinks and didn't lean across the table to put food down! I can't quite comprehend how basic waiting can bring terrible food up to the "good" standard, but there you go...
korrok said:
I did recently hear that apparently the poor customer service culture here had been acknowledged by the government or some official lot and they were going to seek to provide extra training and improvement, as it was considered bad for tourism? I don't have a reference for that but I definitely saw something to that effect.
Good to know. Our friend, a former manager of the Lush that gave Dutchie crap service this weekend, was really peed off and said she's going to talk to them (apparently she still has connections there). Much better than shrugging and saying that it's the same everywhere else. Nothing (big or little) would ever change in the world if we all so apathetic. I prefer to have more faith in the potential of humanity.
mrfook said:
I wouldn't worry that much about improvements in customer service. The way things could go, there will be far less customers for anything so the customer service staff will have more time to deal with the complaints....depending on how many customer service personnel there are left in employment.
Look, you have already made it clear you hardly shop and haven't experienced any bad customer service (hardly surprising) - so leave it to the experts who shop every week for a variety of goods so have a good idea what is going on in the retail and service world.
A couple of days ago I walked into a big sports shop to buy some sports gear. Was directed upstairs where I came across ONE assistant who was spending a ridiculous amount of time with one couple with a small kid. I looked at him intently and he said sorry I'm not free. Walked around the floor for 5 mins (no assistants) - returned to the guy. He was still busy, just staring at the couple whilst they talked and talked and talked about some item of clothing. In the end I went downstairs and asked there. They told me they weren't allowed to go upstairs. I asked if they could just give me a clue where these certain tracks suits were located. Finally they took me upstairs and showed me where they were. And still the same asistant was with this couple, just staring at them whilst they talked and talked and talked. Now, call me old fashioned, but is this really a way to run a business? If the shop had trained their staff to deal with customers, ie: don't spend 30 mins with one customer and ignore everybody else until they walk out the shop, especially if you are the only person on that floor. I was talking to somebody who shared a shop with a Dutch woman. He said I don't understand this - somebody came in to buy something. She was on the computer and ignored him until he walked out. Didn't even look up. WTF? I'm guessing people are so rich in this country they don't need the money. Only explanation I can come up with.
monkeynuts said:
mrfook said:
I wouldn't worry that much about improvements in customer service. The way things could go, there will be far less customers for anything so the customer service staff will have more time to deal with the complaints....depending on how many customer service personnel there are left in employment.Look, you have already made it clear you hardly shop and haven't experienced any bad customer service (hardly surprising) - so leave it to the experts who shop every week for a variety of goods so have a good idea what is going on in the retail and service world.
Ooh Miss Nuts ! You are even more tetchy than usual today....whats up ? didn't you buy any new shoes at the weekend?
I was merely commenting on the socio-economical aspect of retail therapy...sorry I can't offer you any hilarious or depressing shopping anecdotes.
Retail therapy addiction is quite a modern phenomenon.
canuckywoman said:
Good to know. Our friend, a former manager of the Lush that gave Dutchie crap service this weekend, was really peed off and said she's going to talk to them (apparently she still has connections there). Much better than shrugging and saying that it's the same everywhere else. Nothing (big or little) would ever change in the world if we all so apathetic. I prefer to have more faith in the potential of humanity.
I agree, but despite what I had said previously elsewhere, sometimes, one can't help apathy getting the better of us... especially when one has had to go through too much constant crap. Sometimes, I can't help the comment, "Oh let go, f*** it!" escaping my lips.
fortuner said:
canuckywoman said:
Good to know. Our friend, a former manager of the Lush that gave Dutchie crap service this weekend, was really peed off and said she's going to talk to them (apparently she still has connections there). Much better than shrugging and saying that it's the same everywhere else. Nothing (big or little) would ever change in the world if we all so apathetic. I prefer to have more faith in the potential of humanity.
I agree, but despite what I had said previously elsewhere, sometimes, one can't help apathy getting the better of us... especially when one has had to go through too much constant crap. Sometimes, I can't help the comment, "Oh let go, f*** it!" escaping my lips.
My friend got back to us this afternoon. The store has offered Dutchie a gift as an apology for the bad service.
Yeah, we had to use our connections, but no different than back home...it's who you know way too often...but it may make them think twice...we're all becoming more connected nowadays!
canuckywoman said:
My friend got back to us this afternoon. The store has offered Dutchie a gift as an apology for the bad service.
Yeah, we had to use our connections, but no different than back home...it's who you know way too often...but it may make them think twice...we're all becoming more connected nowadays!
That's good news.
Why not, if everyone else is using connections to get something or further... it's not what you know but who you know I used to hear all the time.
I got offered flowers in Albert Heijn a few months back as compensation. I was so amazed I didn't know what to say but was very thankful. These things really makes all the difference.
fortuner said:
canuckywoman said:
My friend got back to us this afternoon. The store has offered Dutchie a gift as an apology for the bad service.
Yeah, we had to use our connections, but no different than back home...it's who you know way too often...but it may make them think twice...we're all becoming more connected nowadays!
That's good news.
Why not, if everyone else is using connections to get something or further... it's not what you know but who you know I used to hear all the time.
I got offered flowers in Albert Heijn a few months back as compensation. I was so amazed I didn't know what to say but was very thankful. These things really makes all the difference.
Dutchie wouldn't accept the gift though...he found that embarrassing. The apology, he said, was good enough...
mrfook said:I was merely commenting on the socio-economical aspect of retail therapy...sorry I can't offer you any hilarious or depressing shopping anecdotes.
Retail therapy addiction is quite a modern phenomenon.
peony said:
We had almost exact situation with OV chipkaart later on - but they took the crown in c r a p service by never answering their phone at all.
The worst is hanging on "hold" for 20 minutes (at .25 cents per minute!) only to have the line disconnected. 
mrfook said:
I wouldn't worry that much about improvements in customer service. The way things could go, there will be far less customers for anything so the customer service staff will have more time to deal with the complaints....depending on how many customer service personnel there are left in employment.
And the way things could go, could be quite the opposite... I personally think that the Netherlands is in a much better position than a lot of other European countries, including the UK.
fortuner said:
mrfook said:
I wouldn't worry that much about improvements in customer service. The way things could go, there will be far less customers for anything so the customer service staff will have more time to deal with the complaints....depending on how many customer service personnel there are left in employment.And the way things could go, could be quite the opposite... I personally think that the Netherlands is in a much better position than a lot of other European countries, including the UK.
I personally think that NL is in a much better position than most countries in the world- thats why I can't understand people whining.
Perhaps there is also an element of fearmongering.I dunno.
Having said that - people should be preparing to weather a storm cos many cutbacks that are in the pipeline haven't started to take effect yet.
Its part of my job to deal with customer services from various courier services with big and small shipments all over the world and for the most part I have found the telephone staff to be very helpful and friendly.
"Excuse me madame! I want to make an official complaint about the slightly damaged box my underpants, pillow cases and cotton wool balls arrived in".
I mean - if somebody can't handle certain niggly hassles now - how on earth will they handle soemthing quite serious?
I think people generally have more choice and spending power than they have ever had....and they still complain ? !
Its actually disrespectful of the vast majority of hard-working people who don't have half the material goods/wealth as we have here in the west.
A positive aspect of a depression/recession will be that it might teach some people to be more appreciative of what they really have.
mrfook said:Its actually disrespectful of the vast majority of hard-working people who don't have half the material goods/wealth as we have here in the west.
Which is why we don't deserve responsive, attentive customer service. 
Franklin said:
mrfook said:Its actually disrespectful of the vast majority of hard-working people who don't have half the material goods/wealth as we have here in the west.
Which is why we don't deserve responsive, attentive customer service.
Most of the time that is what I get....otheriwse you just don't give them the custom anymore.
These large companies are interested in shifting quantity AND keeping shareholders happy and if the shares are steady at the expense of someone who didn't recieve what they ordered or whatever...thats what is happening.
If companies aren't investing in good,reliable,competent staff - shoddiness will happen.
The way some people talk here- you'd think they spend most of their time on the customer service phone....which no doubt gets extremely irritating....so go shop somehwre else,its the only thing you can do really.
How many things do you need to buy to spend so much fckin time on the phone to customer services?
pepec said:
Somehow I agree, mrfook. But I also think that especially big companies (KPN, NUON, etc) can be horrible. I had some problems with KPN in the past and it was really infuriating the way they can treat you. And I speak the language. I can't imagine how it must feel when you don't speak Dutch. And in such cases it isn't so easy as switching shops.
KPN and NUON used to be public national services just like BT and British Gas until our respective right-wing conservative governments decided to privatise everything 30 years ago and effectively sell us what we the people already owned.
There were Tory MP's buying up more than thier fair share cos they knew it was a cash cow for them....and a gigantic rip-off for the not-so-well off.
Its a fckin disgrace that public services such as public transport and healthcare are in the hands of huge corporations. Am sorry - but the general public also accepted the 'blood money' by voting the fckers in!
I've been taking this line for long time now...I have mentioned it once or twice I beleive....:)
mrfook said:
KPN and NUON used to be public national services just like BT and British Gas until our respective right-wing conservative governments decided to privatise everything 30 years ago and effectively sell us what we the people already owned.
Thank god for privatisation, there would never have been the progress that's come without it.
fortuner said:
mrfook said:
KPN and NUON used to be public national services just like BT and British Gas until our respective right-wing conservative governments decided to privatise everything 30 years ago and effectively sell us what we the people already owned.
Thank god for privatisation, there would never have been the progress that's come without it.
In your opinion. The only "progress" I see are in the higher profits for the owners. I and others I know (over a certain age) have only witnessed crappier service and higher prices and more rules and regulations geared to soak the consumer for more money! No. Basic services should NOT be at the will of the market.
canuckywoman said:
In your opinion. The only "progress" I see are in the higher profits for the owners. I and others I know (over a certain age) have only witnessed crappier service and higher prices and more rules and regulations geared to soak the consumer for more money! No. Basic services should NOT be at the will of the market.
I agree that privatisation is not for everything. For example, I agree that the telephone system should be privatised but not the transport system.
I'm glad that privatisation came, but it's gone a tad too far... in my opinion of course.
pepec said:
But I also think that especially big companies (KPN, NUON, etc) can be horrible. I had some problems with KPN in the past and it was really infuriating the way they can treat you. And I speak the language. I can't imagine how it must feel when you don't speak Dutch.
Allow me to step in and tell you exactly how KPN treat you when you don't speak Dutch. The scenario: Mr Osita calling KPN 6 months after we moved here (on his mobieltje) after they decided to cut us off with zero notice.
Mr O: We have been cut off
KPN; . . . .
Mr O: Is there a reason? We've paid the bills on time, haven't we?
KPN: Yes....
Mr O: so is there a problem with the telephone line?
KPN: no, we don't have a customer agreement from you
Mr O: I have the agreement in my hand signed on *date* and the bills have been coming in my name and paid through my bank account
KPN: Yes...
Mr O: So how do you have my details when you don't have the agreement?
................... conversation goes around in this circle for 20 whole minutes...............
Mr O: so how do we resolve this, as I need my internet for my job?
KPN: ..........
KPN: ..........
KPN: sorry meneer, ik spreek geen engels.
Mr O: We have just been speaking English for 25 minutes!!!!
KPN: Mijn soopervizor vil call U
Mr O: Ok - when?
KPN: Next veek.
Mr O: Next week? Are you serious? You cut me off with zero notice and I can't even talk to someone until next week?
KPN: Ja, seven days, ok?
*** line goes dead ***
At least calling the help desk costs now 0,10 p/m. It used to be a ridiculous 0,50. If I remember right there is legislation in the make that they can't charge you anymore for the time you are on hold.
edit: http://nos.nl/artikel/310035-in-de-wacht-staan-moet-gratis-worden.html
It is a PVV proposal btw. Well, even a broken clock is sometimes right.
