Hi, I'm new to the forum. In a nutshell, I am a native (upstate) New Yorker (USA) and my husband is Dutch. We met in NY and stayed there for a couple years. However, for the past 6 years, we've lived in Ireland. I have been dragging my feet about moving (for over a year now), since I do like it in Ireland. But I always promised hubby we would try NL for at least 3 to 5 years. He is currently looking for a new job, and we are aiming to move in September...so, I need to get psyched about moving. Maybe you could talk about things that pleasantly surprised you when you moved???
PS. Does anybody work in public health?
Well, this is a long story.
I am from The US too but I live here because I want to live here .. not because my husband is Dutch and HE wants to live here.
I say that because our lifestyles probably coulld not be more far apart. In your position .. no doubt .. you will have many challenges.
First off - work. Do you speak fluent Dutch?
If not you will have a major problem finding a job.Major. And this will make all the difference IMO.
You can make me a 'friend' and send me a PM if you like. I will tell you what I know. Bottom line .. don´t move here for your husband. There are a zillion women here married to Dutch guys that are quite bitter and unhappy. You have to move here .. because you want to live here.
If you find it is not to your liking .. you have to be prepared to leave .. with or without your husband. And not just stay stuck here because you have no other options. In other words .. you have no other money or means to leave.
Again, I love it here ... but it is my choice to live here.
Red28 said:
Hi, I'm new to the forum. In a nutshell, I am a native (upstate) New Yorker (USA) and my husband is Dutch. We met in NY and stayed there for a couple years. However, for the past 6 years, we've lived in Ireland. I have been dragging my feet about moving (for over a year now), since I do like it in Ireland. But I always promised hubby we would try NL for at least 3 to 5 years. He is currently looking for a new job, and we are aiming to move in September...so, I need to get psyched about moving. Maybe you could talk about things that pleasantly surprised you when you moved???
PS. Does anybody work in public health?
I moved here together with my Dutch partner 2 years ago, after living together abroad, so similar situation as yours. Even though I was not too "psyched" at the time about moving here, now I like it a lot. There are lot of things to like here (if you want to see them), and lots to dislike, same as in any other country.
Having a plan to come here for a fixed period of time to "try it out" will help you a lot, since you will be able to relax and perhaps really give it a go here, knowing that if you don't like it you will leave.
As for jobs, right now its difficult even for Dutch people, so set your expectations to not working for a while. Try to line up a dutch course as soon as you get here, so you get a head start.
Good luck!
Nice, positive post by osita. I agree with her observations.
You haven't said where you're planning on moving to, Red28, so I’ll give it to you from an Amsterdam-perspective. As a result, it may be too ‘dam-specific (!), but what the heck.
One caveat: While The Netherlands is my home, I spend a lot of time on the road with my work, so often I’m not here for weeks at a time. As a result, I probably have quite a superficial, not quite-tourist, not quite-local perspective. Of course, I still have the pleasure of enjoying the same relationship with the various authorities here, just like anyone else that lives here does (heck, I hear from the Dutch tax department more frequently than my own family back home – though frankly, I don’t know if that says more about the Belastingdienst, my family, me, or the efficiency of the Dutch postal service – more on the latter below....).
Perhaps as a result, a friendly wave or greeting from some of the local merchants when I come back is always a pleasant surprise. Really. I don’t think that’s typical for The Netherlands – I certainly don’t get that everywhere here – but when I do, wow, it sure is nice, and after being “homeless” as a result of being an expat in various other places over the years, it sometimes makes me think this is what “home” must feel like. That said, neither my wife nor I really want to spend the rest of our lives here, but it’s where we are now, so I suppose we should make the most of it, right?
So, sure, there are a few things can drive a person crazy (or crazier, as the case may be), but what the heck, you want the positives to get psyched up, you got 'em:
- My wife likes the fact she can fill the apartment with fresh-cut flowers from the Albert Cuyp outdoor market once or twice a week for cheap (I don't do this myself, but I enjoy the benefits!)
- I like going to the market for the fresh produce (but only mid-week and early in the day - no crowds or slow-walkers for me)
- We both really like the abundance of fresh fish & seafood which we get from our favourite fishmonger at the market; mussels from the North Sea (whether eaten at home or in a little waterside cafe in Weesp or someplace else cozy) are the best in the world, and both the little grey shrimp or the other small shrimp in the shell (sorry, don’t remember the name) are also fantastic
- My wife enjoys going to our Islamic butcher for fresh lamb (no, we’re not muslim) and practising her French on the man behind the counter... or going to the Italian deli where the owner is very friendly
- If you imbibe, I think you’ll find the staff at the various wine shops knowledgeable and that they seem to really enjoy their work, especially if you’re trying to do a pairing (I’ve got a favourite shop nearby, Wijnhandel van Krimpen, where the guys are extremely helpful and friendly – I’m talking waving-through-the-window-as-you-walk-by-friendly - but the folks at the Gall & Gall chain are also very helpful and knowledgeable)
- My wife also enjoys going to the little Turkish grocery store at the end of our street that has fantastic fresh produce (both the usual and “unusual” which are usually required in one of the recipes she’s experimenting with) – or their flat bread, again, at great prices
- I love the fact that I can cycle across Amsterdam in about 10 minutes. Maybe I'm a bit faster, but you get the idea. I also love that it's so bike-friendly and that I don't need a car here; if you watch out for the trams & bikes, it’s a great walking city, too
- Okay, tht was for the city, but I really love the idea of being able to hop on our bikes, cycle across town (okay, with 2 of us it takes about 15 minutes), catch the free ferry behind Central Station and be cycling on the dedicated bike pathways enroute to neat little places like Broek in Waterland, Monnickendam and through the countryside on the other side in no time at all (we usually go via Nieuwedammerdijk and Schellingwoude and stop by Marjoke de Heer's ceramic studio and garden on the way), or staying on "this side" and cycling along the Amstel towards Ouderkerk aan de Amstel and beyond and looping back on the other side of the river
- We both really, really love going for a cycle along the polders and canals in the spring – seeing all the newborn goats & sheep is g-r-e-a-t! (yes, I'm kind of repeating myself, aren’t? But if you’re into small, cute, furry animals, then you’ll agree this deserves its own category!)
- I think the Open Ateliersdags (& associated cycle-able Open Atelierroutes), where artists using various media, open their galleries (usually in their homes or informal studios) to the public, is really neat
- I like being able to take the boat out and cruise the canals (it’s early in the season, so it’s not been hectic yet...), which is a completely different way to see any city and am looking forward to meandering the especially scenic areas along the Vecht beside Nieuwersluis and Breukelen in the summer; it’s also a nice drive or cycle (I've found the boating community very friendly & welcoming here, BTW)
- I think it is a bit of a lost art, so I especially admire the helpful guys at Ijzerhandel Zuid (hardware store) who can solve just about any household DYI problem you throw at them – in English or in Dutch. You asked for pleasant surprises, well, it really is a pleasant surprise every time I go in there.... Perhaps in my next life, I’ll work behind the counter at a hardware store...
- I think it’s neat to see the parakeets zipping through our apartment block’s courtyard every now & then
- We both find the postal service incredible here (I don’t know of anywhere else that still delivers morning & afternoon mail, never mind across the country within 1-2 days.... okay, it’s a small country, but still); add a dose of internet shopping if that’s your thing, and you’d certainly be in your element here
- Some people might complain about their ISP’s, but I’ve never found it a problem – it certainly beats most places I’ve lived as an expat – so streaming internet radio, while of course not Netherlands-specific, is great
- We love that we get 4 BBC TV channels here in our cable TV/internet package (no, we’re not Brits)
- I like the online banking and easy bank transfer system (I use ABN Amro and our personal banker is very helpful); English is no problem, BTW
- We have a very small handful of favourite restaurants (Italian, Indian, French, etc., yes, even a Dutch one) where we think it’s pretty cool that the owners recognize and chat with us even if it’s been months since we’ve been in – the waiter at our local Indian restaurant always brings us our first pint of beer without asking and has come to giving us a free glass each during the course of the evening, again even if it’s been 6+ months since we’ve stopped by....
- People-watching at Vondelpark is great in the summer – and what a fantastic, free, well-used “resource” right in the heart of the city!
- The folks behind the counter at the family-run car rental agency (Amcar) I use are very friendly and welcoming, no matter how infrequently I use them, and will humour me in either English or my attempts at Dutch
- If you’re into kitchen gadgets, pots, pans, knives or appliances, then Duikelman in Amsterdam, is nirvana
- Finally, want something that will really knock your socks off? Try a lemon tart from Bakken met Passie, Red28. Your tastebuds will be pleasantly surprised. In a word: wow.
Yes, of course I’m being positive (I’ve even left a few off the list, lest this just becomes a menu of my personal favourite winkels and hang-outs, which wasn’t really what you asked for) – and yes, of course I can easily come up with a list of negatives, too. But you didn’t ask for *those*, right? :) Besides, I can come up with a list of negatives for pretty well any place I’ve lived – some longer than others.... and plenty longer than for here.
As to employment in public health, I met an American gal with an MSW in my Dutch class last summer. I know she’s still having difficulty finding work. Recent funding cuts aren’t helping, I’m afraid. That’s perhaps the most important dose of reality to weigh against the positives above.
Good luck with your move – I hope you have a smooth landing wherever you & your fellow end up, Red28.
Thanks for all the replies. It is good to hear individual experiences. Well, we are defintely NOT planning on moving to the Randstad. Most likely we will be near Eindhoven....but I would be psyched if something turned up near Maastrict or Nijmegen. It seems most expats are in the Randstad? Anybody in the outside regions???
Yes, the job issue. That is what scares me the MOST!!! Actually, I am thinking of going for a PhD, it's a nice way to get my foot in the door....and I would have been doing one as part of job over here (in Ireland) if we were staying. Plus, since most PhDs are 3-year projects (and can be written in English or Dutch), it seems like a good way to introduce myself to the country. PhD advice is always welcome too:-)
My Dutch is weak, but I already studied Spanish, Russian and Irish Sign Language, so I think I pick up languages pretty quickly. The only problem I found is that people switch to English when I speak Dutch in NL. Ok, in that case I normally pretend I am a Russian who doesn't speak English, and I can usually get them to keep speaking in Dutch to me. (BTW, that's only backfired once, when they had a Russian friend who they were going to call over!!!) But I suppose willingness to try will keep me afloat. Plus, I've never taken a class, so I think that will expedite the process.
Hi Red28,
I didn't mean your husband would be 'stuck' in The NL. I said YOU would be stuck here if he liked it and you did not .. and you had no other options. This is extremely common ... as a matter of fact. (Meaning .. women that have to stay here with their Dutch husbands for whatever reason.) This was my caution to you.
Secondly the last thing you mentioned in your first post was finding work in the Public Health sector. So .. I know this is on your list .. and now you are saying this is what scares you most. Well, in truth .. you should be scared if you are serious about a real career because typically you have to be fluent in Dutch to gain such a position. 
.. Understand that only abot 10% of Dutch women work fulll time (more that 32 hours a week) as adverse to 40% of American women.
I worked in Corporate America for many years and now have been working the the corporate Dutch culture these past 12 years so the I noticed that the demographics in the workplace are terribly skewed ... in the direction of the male population. 
Now, I am a woman in the computer field whiich is mainly male dominiated even in The States but truely .. it is quite different here. So set your expectations ... accordingly.
Please understand that most Dutch or non-Dutch women living here are very, very traditonal. Meaning home and raising children is the highest priority. Ambition ... umm not so much. So many Dutch women go to school (A LOT actually) and get a job but at some point early on .. they will drop back to 3 days a week and when they have children .. LESS. This is something that I found quite amazing. Be prepared.
I have watched this movement for years at my company - this is considered quite normal here.
I agree that the PHD route is the best (Dutch/English) choice for you to get your foot in the door though.
About Dutch .. if you pick up languages fast I'd advise you to stay in the PhD program and learn Dutch on the side. With your background you would probably be fluent within a couple of years.
Yes, whenever I speak Dutch .. EVERYONE knows I am American and some people switch to English too. :) It's like Arnold (the former Governor of California) who has been in The US for some 30 years now ... but the moment he opens his mouth ... you know he is Austrian (well, Americans think he is German!)! Hee hee!
I always say 'Dank je wel, maar ik moet oefenen Nederlands spreken elke dag.' or 'Thank you but I must practice speaking Dutch everyday.' Then they smile and say ahhh OEFENEN (practice) and then we go on in Dutch. 
This is part and parcel of living here .. you just have to speak Dutch .. anyway. (Umm that is unless you are visiting the doctor or dealing with money at the bank or anything where you HAVE to make yourself understood!) Less disasters that way!!
Anyway, I like what Milkman had to say .. a very extensive list indeed. I have lived and worked both inside and outside the Ranstad and there are clear differences. But I share his observations about live here. Peaceful.
Even though I live in Den Haag (In the Randstad) I do work near Eindhoven ... which is well outside of the Randstad. It's nice there .. though quite Dutch and yes there are some expats in the area. Philips is a big employer and there are a lot of expats working there. Umm .. I am afraid it is not such an exciting part of The NL though but it depends on what you like to do in your spare time.
Anyway it is quite lovely living here in The NL actually - so give it a few years!
Elegra said:
Anyways, the pros for me are: I love the supermarket produce, especially all the bakery and diary items, much more choice than in the UK.
What??? You really think there's more choice here? I miss having a whole aisle dedicated to ... uhm.. toilet roll or shampoo 
Seriously, the average supermarket here has 12 aisles and in the UK, around 30. Yet for some reason, I still spend as long in shops here as I did there.
Plus what's with the extortionate prices of toiletries??!!
Oh, you and me both!
My remedy to this is to only buy toiletries at Trekpleister or Etos, and then, only buy the special offers, which change every week. Last week I bulk-bought 7-packs of Toothpaste, this week it was Dove Showergel on buy-2-get-2-free. Hopefully it will be shampoo soon (I so hate paying full price)
and why are the sqaures of toilet roll about 50% smaller than those of a UK toilet roll? I've never figured that one out - it's not like the Dutch **** is 50% smaller than the UK one (flattened out like pastry after a lifetime of cycling!)
Ok, perhaps that was a little b*tchy of me . . . I'll be quiet now.
Hi Red28,
I am an american that has lived in NL, left to come back to the US and now I am going to make the move back. My family and I WANT to live there. I am married with 3 kids and we are all american. We loved living there but to be honest with you it will take some getting used to.
You will have to get used to the pace at which Dutch society moves. It does not move at the same pace the US does and it is not going to change just because you are there - trust me! LOL
You will hve to get used the goverment red tape, it has gotten better in the last few years but its like being at the DMV for everything.
If you in a rush and hungry - do not go out to eat at a restaurant. To them this is an event and takes time. If you go out to eat then expect to spend 2 - 3 hours and the wait person to bring your drinks and not get back to you for 30mins or so
You will have to get used to all the bikes and understand that they own the roads, not you in your car - Its just the way it is over there.
Depending on where you live - like the city - the tourists. Its cool to so many different types of people the first year you are there but its old after that. Kinda like tourists in NYC.
Gas is way more expensive of there.
The trash system - We actually got a ticket we had pay because we used the wrong trash can on the curb.
Here are somethings that you don't have to get used to - you just need to understand.
Its is not the US and it is not going to be like the US. Everything is different - housing, cars, health care, schooling, grocery shopping, clothes for you and your kids, and play grounds. I mean absolutely everything and you have to be ready for that.
Here are some of the things we love about The Netherlands
The food is so much better for you over there.
We found the schooling to be far superior over there
Integration for you kids is way better. My kids were able to speak fluent Dutch in 3 months because of the way the school setup their Dutch lessons. I suggest putting your kids in Dutch schools if they are young enough.
Most people who work in NL get paid for 13months - they give you an extra month pay for vacation.
Flowers are so inexpensive - you can get a bundle of tulips (about 2 dzn) for 2 euros.
the feeling of safety for your kids (if you don't live in a big city)
The ability to travel to other places with ease
Getting a minium of 30 days off per year.
The ability to meet other people from around the world in the same situation as you are
Regardless of all these things I have mentioned - I have to agree with ouloveit3. You have to want to live there. Understand though you can't just go for a month and say you hate it. You will have to live there for 2 or 3 years to really know.
I hope this helps
Matt
osita said:
What??? You really think there's more choice here? I miss having a whole aisle dedicated to ... uhm.. toilet roll or shampoo
Ha! Ha! No I really meant there was more choice for bakey and dairy items but for everything else... hmmmm. not so much! I wanted to get a curry sauce the other day and went to a pretty big AH and they had the grand total of one forlorn looking jar of korma.
Yeh, stockpiling on offers for toiletries is the way to go, we currently have about 3 litres of shower gel standing around just cause it was on buy one get one free. I've been shipping in my toothpaste though when I visit back home!!
hutchinsonm_nl said:
Hi Red28,
I am an american that has lived in NL, left to come back to the US and now I am going to make the move back. My family and I WANT to live there. I am married with 3 kids and we are all american. We loved living there but to be honest with you it will take some getting used to.
You will have to get used to the pace at which Dutch society moves. It does not move at the same pace the US does and it is not going to change just because you are there - trust me! LOL
You will hve to get used the goverment red tape, it has gotten better in the last few years but its like being at the DMV for everything.
If you in a rush and hungry - do not go out to eat at a restaurant. To them this is an event and takes time. If you go out to eat then expect to spend 2 - 3 hours and the wait person to bring your drinks and not get back to you for 30mins or so
You will have to get used to all the bikes and understand that they own the roads, not you in your car - Its just the way it is over there.
Depending on where you live - like the city - the tourists. Its cool to so many different types of people the first year you are there but its old after that. Kinda like tourists in NYC.
Gas is way more expensive of there.
The trash system - We actually got a ticket we had pay because we used the wrong trash can on the curb.
Here are somethings that you don't have to get used to - you just need to understand.
Its is not the US and it is not going to be like the US. Everything is different - housing, cars, health care, schooling, grocery shopping, clothes for you and your kids, and play grounds. I mean absolutely everything and you have to be ready for that.
Here are some of the things we love about The Netherlands
The food is so much better for you over there.
We found the schooling to be far superior over there
Integration for you kids is way better. My kids were able to speak fluent Dutch in 3 months because of the way the school setup their Dutch lessons. I suggest putting your kids in Dutch schools if they are young enough.
Most people who work in NL get paid for 13months - they give you an extra month pay for vacation.
Flowers are so inexpensive - you can get a bundle of tulips (about 2 dzn) for 2 euros.
the feeling of safety for your kids (if you don't live in a big city)
The ability to travel to other places with ease
Getting a minium of 30 days off per year.
The ability to meet other people from around the world in the same situation as you are
Regardless of all these things I have mentioned - I have to agree with ouloveit3. You have to want to live there. Understand though you can't just go for a month and say you hate it. You will have to live there for 2 or 3 years to really know.
I hope this helps
Matt
I agree with you as well.
I can't speak on the kids - because I don't have any but I see the enviornment in which my friends are able to raise their kids and .. all I can say is .. The States could take a serious lesson from the Dutch.
Hey, (shrugs) I am just a big kid myself and I am mainly on the party and pub-hopping curcuit ... but it's waaaaay safer and more relaxed here than The States. Waaaay.
I am here for the 'Duration'' too.
(Umm I don't know what the heck they are talking about in terms of the cost of ... toleiteries for goodness sakes. Who cares? 
)
Elegra said:
Anyways, the pros for me are: I love the supermarket produce, especially all the bakery and diary items, much more choice than in the UK.
You are joking, right? What isolated place did you live in in the UK? 
Though I will admit, they do do a very good selection of diary's here towards the years end...
