Hoping to get the hive mind's opinion.
Since it says on the IND's website that after an unbroken chain of 3 years of residency in the Netherlands with a registered partner, with a spouse or with the cohabitation agreement, one would assume that from three years after receiving my residence permit on the basis of my relationship with my partner (juli 2010), that I would be able to apply for naturalisation in July of 2013.
However, due to another circumstance, I had to visit my (immigration) lawyer, and I wanted to check with her. She had said this was only valid if you are married. She didn't have any information on her at the moment and she was sitting in on the proceedings (she is a member of the same law firm of the lawyer my partner and I were seeing) which involved another matter entirely, but which has possible bearing upon my immigration status.
So, have the laws changed very recently? Or has she not checked her facts well enough and spoke without knowing the full truth at the moment? I was pretty sure that my samenwonencontract allowed me to apply for naturalisation after those three years of having my residence permit (uninterrupted) were done.
Sorry if it's been asked, but I just checked everywhere and couldn't find anything very recent which dealt in my specific question.
sabetsu said:
Hoping to get the hive mind's opinion.
Since it says on the IND's website that after an unbroken chain of 3 years of residency in the Netherlands with a registered partner, with a spouse or with the cohabitation agreement, one would assume that from three years after receiving my residence permit on the basis of my relationship with my partner (juli 2010), that I would be able to apply for naturalisation in July of 2013.
However, due to another circumstance, I had to visit my (immigration) lawyer, and I wanted to check with her. She had said this was only valid if you are married. She didn't have any information on her at the moment and she was sitting in on the proceedings (she is a member of the same law firm of the lawyer my partner and I were seeing) which involved another matter entirely, but which has possible bearing upon my immigration status.
So, have the laws changed very recently? Or has she not checked her facts well enough and spoke without knowing the full truth at the moment? I was pretty sure that my samenwonencontract allowed me to apply for naturalisation after those three years of having my residence permit (uninterrupted) were done.
She didn't check her facts well enough. (It happens to the best of us.) You can get naturalized after 3 years of
EITHER:
- being in a cohabiting relationship with a Dutch citizen AND living with them continuously AND being in the possession of a residence permit for the purpose of that relationship;
OR:
- being married to or the registered partner of a Dutch citizen AND living with them continuously. You do not have to be in the possession of a residence permit for that specific purpose, but you do have to in possession of some kind of residence permit for a non-temporary purpose right now (i.e., not study, not au pair, and not medical treatment). Nor do you have to have been in the possession of a residence permit for all of those past 3 years (you can have a gap!). Note also that getting married or getting a registered partnership makes all the time you were registered at one address in the Netherlands before that point count retroactively toward the 3 years.
So you do qualify to get naturalized based on the first situation. You can go in and apply in July 2013, no doubt about it. However, it is very much in your interest to get married or get a registered partnership first for other reasons, because then you will not be required to renounce your original nationality (which is of the US, if I recall correctly from your previous postings).
That is, I am sad to say, only if the law remains the way it is right now. A bill to change Dutch nationality law has been presented to Parliament which would get rid of this exemption, i.e. everyone getting naturalized would be expected to renounce their original nationality. Assume it will pass, since it has the support of a bare majority of members of the lower chamber of parliament, even though it is actually quite controversial. You just have to hold your breath that it will not become law before July 2013.
Jeremy Bierbach, LLM
www.immigrate.nl
Thanks for the update, Chimes, I see someone has posted it on the main page of the Legal Problems forum translated into English. Not such good news for a lot of people, I'm sure, but thank you for keeping us up-to-date!
For people with a similar situation to me, who already have been issued a residence permit and are waiting to be able to naturalise: " Vreemdelingen die op dit moment het bezit zijn van een verblijfsvergunning voor een verblijfsdoel dat met ingang van 1 juli 2012 komt te vervallen, behouden deze verblijfsvergunning en kunnen deze ook met ingang van 1 juli 2012 verlengen."
Translation: Foreigners who are at this moment in the possession of a residence permit for a purpose of residence which goes into effect from 1 July 2012, may keep this residence permit and can also apply for residence permit extensions.
I also read about the news this morning. Obviously rules are only becoming more stringent. Apply before 1 July if you qualify now. See details about the news in English: http://www.trimf-legal.nl/news_cccfrf_en.html
sabetsu said:
Thanks for the update, Chimes, I see someone has posted it on the main page of the Legal Problems forum translated into English. Not such good news for a lot of people, I'm sure, but thank you for keeping us up-to-date!
For people with a similar situation to me, who already have been issued a residence permit and are waiting to be able to naturalise: " Vreemdelingen die op dit moment het bezit zijn van een verblijfsvergunning voor een verblijfsdoel dat met ingang van 1 juli 2012 komt te vervallen, behouden deze verblijfsvergunning en kunnen deze ook met ingang van 1 juli 2012 verlengen."
Translation: Foreigners who are at this moment in the possession of a residence permit for a purpose of residence which goes into effect from 1 July 2012, may keep this residence permit and can also apply for residence permit extensions.
I guess I do not follow.
Are they now saying (as of July) you have to be here with a Dutch partner .. 5 years (instead of 3) to gain a Dutch passport?
"De termijn om in aanmerking te kunnen komen voor voortgezet verblijf wordt gewijzigd van 3 naar 5 jaar."
The amount of time in which one is eligible for continued residence will be changed from three to five years.
So, essentially, yes.
Full translation (by me, with a little help from Lazarus translation):
"Publication of Family Migration Measures (Effective 1 July 2012)
Introduction
In the coalition and tolerance agreement of 30 September 2010, a number of measures have been added in the field of family migration. These measures have been published on 11 April 2012 in the Staatsblad and will go into effect on 1 July 2012.
The Measures
The measures are as follows:
Family Reunification and Family Formation
Other
When
The measures will take effect on 1 July 2012. Applications which are turned in before 1 July 2012 (also requests about the issuing of MVVs) will be tested against the current policy. The new rules will not yet be effectual. For applications which are turned in after 30 June 2012, the new measures will be effective.
Foreigners who currently are in the possession of a residence permit for a purpose of stay which will expire starting on 1 July 2012 will retain their residence permits and can still lengthen expired permits after 1 July 2012.
The Temporary Marriage Permit
Unmarried partners will no longer be applicable for family reunification or formation, unless they may not marry due to the laws in their country of origin. If it is not possible to marry in their land of origin then it is possible to send in an application for a residence permit for a fixed period of time with the aim of 'entering into a marriage or registered partnership'. This permit is valid for six months and is only meant to be used to marry in the Netherlands. If the partners are married or enter into a registered partnership within those six alotted months, then the residence permit can be exchanged for a residence permit with the aim of staying with a spouse or registered partner.
The temporary marriage license can be applied for starting on 1 July 2012. It must be noted and made completely clear that one must not be legally able to marry in their country of origin. It must be a legal impossibility. For exampl,e if under legislation in the land of origin that it is not possible to conduct a marriage between two partners of the same sex.
Further conditions apply to the temporary marriage permit:
Getting married at the municipality
The partners who have received a temporary marriage permit and want to get married or enter into a registered partnership must do this within six months in the Netherlands. In order to complete the marriage fully, or to fully register the partnership, the municipality will ask for documents. It can cost a lot of time to gather these (foreign) documents. Inform the foreigner in advance, before they come to the Netherlands, what the municipality requires and which conditions the documents need to comply with.
Costs
The cost of the application for temporary marriage permit (MVV and VVR without MVV) comes to the amount of €1.250,-.
If the partner travels with a knowledge migrant, then the partner pays €250.
The cost of an application VVR after MVV always costs €300.
An application for the modification of the limitation of residence by one's spouse must be submitted before the expiration of the validity of the temporary marriage permit."
ouloveit3 said:
sabetsu said:
Thanks for the update, Chimes, I see someone has posted it on the main page of the Legal Problems forum translated into English. Not such good news for a lot of people, I'm sure, but thank you for keeping us up-to-date!
For people with a similar situation to me, who already have been issued a residence permit and are waiting to be able to naturalise: " Vreemdelingen die op dit moment het bezit zijn van een verblijfsvergunning voor een verblijfsdoel dat met ingang van 1 juli 2012 komt te vervallen, behouden deze verblijfsvergunning en kunnen deze ook met ingang van 1 juli 2012 verlengen."
Translation: Foreigners who are at this moment in the possession of a residence permit for a purpose of residence which goes into effect from 1 July 2012, may keep this residence permit and can also apply for residence permit extensions.
I guess I do not follow.
Are they now saying (as of July) you have to be here with a Dutch partner .. 5 years (instead of 3) to gain a Dutch passport?
No. See my posting in the other thread. The change is not technically relevant to the topic of this thread, which is the question of what conditions Dutch nationality law wants you to satisfy in order to get naturalized. For the time being, those requirements will stay the same, and as I outlined above.
However, not entirely coincidentally, the government has introduced a bill to modify the nationality law. In this suggested change, you would indeed have to be married to or the partner of a Dutch citizen for 5 years rather than 3. But that is a much longer and not as certain a legislative process as the one by which the immigration law was changed-- that could be done with a stroke of a pen by the government, while the nationality law has to be approved by both houses of Parliament and the legislatures of Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten. We can still hold our breaths for it not being passed.
avocado said:
sabetsu said:
Hoping to get the hive mind's opinion.
Since it says on the IND's website that after an unbroken chain of 3 years of residency in the Netherlands with a registered partner, with a spouse or with the cohabitation agreement, one would assume that from three years after receiving my residence permit on the basis of my relationship with my partner (juli 2010), that I would be able to apply for naturalisation in July of 2013.
However, due to another circumstance, I had to visit my (immigration) lawyer, and I wanted to check with her. She had said this was only valid if you are married. She didn't have any information on her at the moment and she was sitting in on the proceedings (she is a member of the same law firm of the lawyer my partner and I were seeing) which involved another matter entirely, but which has possible bearing upon my immigration status.
So, have the laws changed very recently? Or has she not checked her facts well enough and spoke without knowing the full truth at the moment? I was pretty sure that my samenwonencontract allowed me to apply for naturalisation after those three years of having my residence permit (uninterrupted) were done.
She didn't check her facts well enough. (It happens to the best of us.) You can get naturalized after 3 years of
EITHER:
- being in a cohabiting relationship with a Dutch citizen AND living with them continuously AND being in the possession of a residence permit for the purpose of that relationship;
OR:
- being married to or the registered partner of a Dutch citizen AND living with them continuously. You do not have to be in the possession of a residence permit for that specific purpose, but you do have to in possession of some kind of residence permit for a non-temporary purpose right now (i.e., not study, not au pair, and not medical treatment). Nor do you have to have been in the possession of a residence permit for all of those past 3 years (you can have a gap!). Note also that getting married or getting a registered partnership makes all the time you were registered at one address in the Netherlands before that point count retroactively toward the 3 years.
So you do qualify to get naturalized based on the first situation. You can go in and apply in July 2013, no doubt about it. However, it is very much in your interest to get married or get a registered partnership first for other reasons, because then you will not be required to renounce your original nationality (which is of the US, if I recall correctly from your previous postings).
That is, I am sad to say, only if the law remains the way it is right now. A bill to change Dutch nationality law has been presented to Parliament which would get rid of this exemption, i.e. everyone getting naturalized would be expected to renounce their original nationality. Assume it will pass, since it has the support of a bare majority of members of the lower chamber of parliament, even though it is actually quite controversial. You just have to hold your breath that it will not become law before July 2013.
Jeremy Bierbach, LLM
www.immigrate.nl
can i ask you another question in relation to this.. if someone had a km permit for 4 years that was followed by a permit based on family reunification (either a registered partnership of cohabitation agreement) for one year and it all does it qualify for naturalization at 5 years, does it also qualify for dual citizenship due to family reunification status at the time of the 5 years in the country?
close2s said:can i ask you another question in relation to this.. if someone had a km permit for 4 years that was followed by a permit based on family reunification (either a registered partnership of cohabitation agreement) for one year and it all does it qualify for naturalization at 5 years, does it also qualify for dual citizenship due to family reunification status at the time of the 5 years in the country?
Probably, yes. There are two things here:
1. Qualification to apply to get naturalized, and
2. Qualification for the exemption on having to give up your original nationality.
You can 1) qualify to get naturalized 'on your own steam', as it were, simply by having been legally resident with any combination of different kinds of residence permits for five continuous years, even if the part of that time in which you have been the spouse or partner of a Dutch citizen has been less than three years.
AND, at the same time, you can 2) qualify for the exemption on having to give up your original nationality if you are married to or the registered partner of (not merely cohabitating with) a Dutch citizen. There is no minimum time requirement for that. You can have gotten married/RPed the day before you file your naturalization petition, and that is enough to qualify.
