Forums » Netherlands » Relationships in the Netherlands

• goteresa

  

  • 17 posts
   

  October 7, 2010 8:24:14 AM CEST

  This is my first post, so bare with me! This will be long as the situation is a bit complicated, but I've seen some great posts here and could really use some advice.
  
  I'm a female American, he's a native Dutchie. We met traveling 7 months ago in South America. We traveled together for 7 weeks; you can call it at the time a travel romance. We didn't know what to consider it; were intimate, but did have feelings. We went our separate ways, which was really hard, considering the feelings.
  
  For 4 months, we spoke online a lot, kept in touch. Both of us didn't really see nor find interest in anyone. In August, I went to visit him in The Netherlands to see him and visit other Dutch friends. We spent a month together and we picked up where we left off; it was great! I started to really fall for him. I got one of my Dutch girlfriends to talk to him and he told her if I lived there I'd be his girlfriend wayyy long time ago. While I was there, I went on a sailing trip with his brothers, met his parents (They had already known of me traveling with him before.) I stayed in his place the entire month. Our goodbyes were harder than the first. It was emotional but he said things like "We'll see each other again."
  
  Sounds good right? I am back home now as is he. I am currently learning the language.. I want nothing more than to be with him. I'm a travel writer who'd love to be an expat in Europe, regardless of the relationship. It's a deep plunge to take but I know I care about him a lot in 7 months of whatever you'd call this.
  
  As for him, besides what I know from my friend and how he acts- which is great. We constantly talk, there is obvious sexual banter/chemistry, he says he has no interest in other people nor the incline to. But, it seems like I don't know where things are going.
  
  Maybe I'm an insecure woman when I say that I see things are going well as is and I'm scared to start "asking questions" that men always hate. But, considering the life decisions I might make, I want to know if he finds this serious enough to pursue. I wrote him a letter addressing a few of these points and I think he felt overwhelmed or unable to express feelings.
  
  All of this is really starting to get to me and I hate confrontation and based on the other posts I've read, is this the Dutch in him or are these mixed signals a sign of uncertainty on his part? We're not technically official, should that worry me? Should I ask him where this is going? Am I crazy here everyone?
  
  Thanks for reading. Any advice/comments/criticism is greatly appreciated.
• magistrix

  
   

  October 8, 2010 2:48:00 AM CEST

  I don't think this is a "Dutch" thing, but a "guy" thing. And they say women are complicated. I'm a little confused, to be honest. On the one hand, you are not official. On the other hand, you've been introduced to his family and friends and spent time with both. Based on my rather limited observations and experiences, people don't exactly take flings home and introduce them to their inner circle; they do that with people who are important to them.
  
  So far, you've spent about 3 months together, in fairly close quarters. It may not seem long, but it's sufficient to figure out if you want to pursue something more serious, and it sounds like things are clear for you. After all, you got a lot more face-time than people meeting in more mundane circumstances and going on dates a couple of times of week. So I think that you did the right thing asking him where you stand, although I'm not sure that considering a move already is the best idea.
  
  I suspect he's freaking out because your circumstances aren't mundane. I think he realizes that for this relationship to work, one of you needs to make major changes in his or her life. Even if you welcome the prospect of changes, he may be thinking about what's going to happen down the road. Perhaps he doesn't want to be responsible for potentially ruining your life if things don't work out in the long run after you've made this huge change. Perhaps he's afraid that he'll be stuck with you out of guilt.
  
  Normally, I'd call it male wishy-washiness or unwillingness to commit. But given the circumstances, I kind of understand where he's coming from. I know that long-distance relationships are difficult and can be taxing on both people. But I also know that it's possible to go on like this for a while until you're absolutely sure. I don't think a few more visits would be a bad thing for either of you. If you decide to be "official," you could put his anxiety at rest by taking it slowly, not talking about moving just yet, and trying to set up more visits. Eventually, it will become clear if what you have is solid and at that point, you could start discussing the move.
  
  I know that moving here sounds exciting to you as a travel writer, but since you're not a EU citizen, things wouldn't be very easy for you even if you were a "lady of leisure." You don't want to be dependent on a guy for your status, so take your time and make your own plans. If you really like it here and have friends, you could try to arrange a move independently, possibly via an employer. But do it for you, not for your relationship - don't base your move on your relationship, in other words.
• goteresa

  

  • 17 posts
   

  October 8, 2010 1:34:43 PM CEST

  
  

  magistrix (Oct 7 2010, 11:48 PM) said: > original post
  I don't think this is a "Dutch" thing, but a "guy" thing. And they say women are complicated. I'm a little confused, to be honest. On the one hand, you are not official. On the other hand, you've been introduced to his family and friends and spent time with both. Based on my rather limited observations and experiences, people don't exactly take flings home and introduce them to their inner circle; they do that with people who are important to them.
  
  So far, you've spent about 3 months together, in fairly close quarters. It may not seem long, but it's sufficient to figure out if you want to pursue something more serious, and it sounds like things are clear for you. After all, you got a lot more face-time than people meeting in more mundane circumstances and going on dates a couple of times of week. So I think that you did the right thing asking him where you stand, although I'm not sure that considering a move already is the best idea.
  
  I suspect he's freaking out because your circumstances aren't mundane. I think he realizes that for this relationship to work, one of you needs to make major changes in his or her life. Even if you welcome the prospect of changes, he may be thinking about what's going to happen down the road. Perhaps he doesn't want to be responsible for potentially ruining your life if things don't work out in the long run after you've made this huge change. Perhaps he's afraid that he'll be stuck with you out of guilt.
  
  Normally, I'd call it male wishy-washiness or unwillingness to commit. But given the circumstances, I kind of understand where he's coming from. I know that long-distance relationships are difficult and can be taxing on both people. But I also know that it's possible to go on like this for a while until you're absolutely sure. I don't think a few more visits would be a bad thing for either of you. If you decide to be "official," you could put his anxiety at rest by taking it slowly, not talking about moving just yet, and trying to set up more visits. Eventually, it will become clear if what you have is solid and at that point, you could start discussing the move.
  
  I know that moving here sounds exciting to you as a travel writer, but since you're not a EU citizen, things wouldn't be very easy for you even if you were a "lady of leisure." You don't want to be dependent on a guy for your status, so take your time and make your own plans. If you really like it here and have friends, you could try to arrange a move independently, possibly via an employer. But do it for you, not for your relationship - don't base your move on your relationship, in other words.

  
  
  
  I must say, I really appreciate and love how well written your reply was. I hadn't anticipated anything of the sort and I'm so thankful for that! You made so many valid points that are on my mind.
  
  I haven't confronted him yet (Haven't caught him online and am feeling wishy washy about how to approach it without sounding like a hawk feeding on its prey)
  
  I do agree- it is confusing. A guy wouldn't expect or have a girl visit and then show her off to the family if she was just a fling. I understand labeling me as a girlfriend is tough as well; relationships have expectations and need nurturing. Keeping things the way they are- still interesting, talking and visiting is lovely as well. I want to know what his intentions are and to not expect him to one day pop up and say "Oh. Found someone who isn't 3000 miles away"
  
  You're right about the moving thing as well. As much as it's a nice idea in my head; I'd imagine it is soon to think about that. It's only so common to think it because I've been in previous long distance relationships (Not as far as these) and had lived with a partner prior to solve the long distance. Loved the country and do miss my friends there, but it is a lot to think about and consider at the moment. I definitely would not move just for him; all the options would need to be weighed prior.
  
  Gonna see if I catch him today to ask him what is going on. Extremely nervous
• magistrix

  
   

  October 9, 2010 2:00:13 AM CEST

  Good luck with the talk You're not a hawk closing in on her prey - it's normal to want to know if both of you see a future to it. If he doesn't, then it's good to know so you can adjust your expectations. Obviously, you can either walk away or let it go on as a casual relationship, whichever works for you, but being stuck in the gray zone isn't fun.
  
  I hope he's mature enough to be as honest with you as you are with him.
• goteresa

  

  • 17 posts
   

  October 10, 2010 1:30:05 AM CEST

  
  

  magistrix (Oct 8 2010, 11:00 PM) said: > original post
  Good luck with the talk You're not a hawk closing in on her prey - it's normal to want to know if both of you see a future to it. If he doesn't, then it's good to know so you can adjust your expectations. Obviously, you can either walk away or let it go on as a casual relationship, whichever works for you, but being stuck in the gray zone isn't fun.
  
  I hope he's mature enough to be as honest with you as you are with him.

  
  
  
  Thanks! I had a chat with him and he said he does really like me a lot; its more than just a fling. I can tell he feels really nervous talking about how he feels so I left it at that; rather than bombard him with millions of questions I want to ask.
  
  I guess for now, I'll leave it as casual and making visits. Costly yes, but great for my job! Considering our circumstances it can also be true that it is a bit soon to consider these big decisions. I'll tell you this, it is frustrating. Finding the right guy and having him live on another continent
• dlbdutchgirl

  
   

  October 10, 2010 6:56:09 PM CEST

  My situation was a bit different. He was the visiting his relative, a friend of mine, in the States and that's how we met. I visited here 3x for 1 month at a time in some of the worse times of year, Dec - Jun, and he insisted on seeing and experiencing my life in the US so he visited me for a month. Finally after 3 yrs, with 1 couple month break up because HE thought it was too difficult, we decided I'd take the steps to come here. (We are both older, 50+, so it was no young fling thing.) It is a huge step that requires a bit of the sponsor, like making a certain income and having a permanent job contract and that can be something that makes him think, especially if he doesn't have that. I think you are wise to give it time, and have to agree with everything Magi wrote. I encourage you to begin researching what is required for you to immigrate here, www.ind.nl. You are a US citizen, not EU--unless you have some other nationality through a parent, and you have to follow what is required of someone coming from the US and would be coming under family formation, unless you can figure out a way to come here as a free lancer. It is great if you can find a Dutch group in your area, check out Meet Up.com and see if there's one in your city, to help you learn the language and have Dutchies to hang out with--they'll all be asking why you want to move here from the US:)--and begin to learn the language. Veel succes!
  
• goteresa

  

  • 17 posts
   

  October 12, 2010 7:04:19 AM CEST

  
  

  dlbdutchgirl (Oct 10 2010, 03:56 PM) said: > original post
  My situation was a bit different. He was the visiting his relative, a friend of mine, in the States and that's how we met. I visited here 3x for 1 month at a time in some of the worse times of year, Dec - Jun, and he insisted on seeing and experiencing my life in the US so he visited me for a month. Finally after 3 yrs, with 1 couple month break up because HE thought it was too difficult, we decided I'd take the steps to come here. (We are both older, 50+, so it was no young fling thing.) It is a huge step that requires a bit of the sponsor, like making a certain income and having a permanent job contract and that can be something that makes him think, especially if he doesn't have that. I think you are wise to give it time, and have to agree with everything Magi wrote. I encourage you to begin researching what is required for you to immigrate here, www.ind.nl. You are a US citizen, not EU--unless you have some other nationality through a parent, and you have to follow what is required of someone coming from the US and would be coming under family formation, unless you can figure out a way to come here as a free lancer. It is great if you can find a Dutch group in your area, check out Meet Up.com and see if there's one in your city, to help you learn the language and have Dutchies to hang out with--they'll all be asking why you want to move here from the US:)--and begin to learn the language. Veel succes!

  
  
  
  Wow! You know, I hear so many stories like this. (With different varieties of course) I thiank you for your kind words and advice!
  
  I know the transition process would be crazy if I do consider to go over there. I'm looking to claim Spanish residency, for my personal benefit. I learned that my grandparents were Spain natives, so I could work there for a year and claim residency. It's a crazy process, all very new to me as well.
  
  I'm so fascinated by the language and culture. So many Dutchies ask me already why I'd want to leave NYC. Easy, I absolutely heart NYC, but just take a look at my bills and expenses!
  
  Dank u vel!
• jewelair

  
   

  October 13, 2010 6:06:30 PM CEST

  
  

  dolcecorazon (Oct 12 2010, 04:04 AM) said: > original post
  Wow! You know, I hear so many stories like this. (With different varieties of course) I thiank you for your kind words and advice!
  
  I know the transition process would be crazy if I do consider to go over there. I'm looking to claim Spanish residency, for my personal benefit. I learned that my grandparents were Spain natives, so I could work there for a year and claim residency. It's a crazy process, all very new to me as well.
  
  I'm so fascinated by the language and culture. So many Dutchies ask me already why I'd want to leave NYC. Easy, I absolutely heart NYC, but just take a look at my bills and expenses!
  
  Dank u vel!

  
  
  
  I agree with Magistrix. It takes alot of energy, patience to move your life over to Holland and give up your existing connections, friends and job. I moved here recently for my dutch boyfriend. The job market is not easy especially when you are not fluent in Dutch and learning Dutch takes times to master. At parties and social gatherings also there's not much willingness to change to speaking English from the dutch. I think it's better if u can get a job offer here and move with that instead of starting from scratch and depending on him. You can make your own decisions and not be in a foreign country as a dependent.
  
• goteresa

  

  • 17 posts
   

  October 15, 2010 3:53:17 AM CEST

  
  

  jewelair (Oct 13 2010, 03:06 PM) said: > original post
  I agree with Magistrix. It takes alot of energy, patience to move your life over to Holland and give up your existing connections, friends and job. I moved here recently for my dutch boyfriend. The job market is not easy especially when you are not fluent in Dutch and learning Dutch takes times to master. At parties and social gatherings also there's not much willingness to change to speaking English from the dutch. I think it's better if u can get a job offer here and move with that instead of starting from scratch and depending on him. You can make your own decisions and not be in a foreign country as a dependent.

  
  
  
  Very well said! I know learning the language will take time. I've thought so much about the connections and networks I have here, which are a lot. As a writer, NYC is central to this.
  
  I guess since I am taking it day by day, for now, I'll keep practicing the language and we'll keep visiting each other and see if this love progresses. I'm sure he wouldn't mind living in NY if he'd consider that. I'd love to be anywhere in Europe. I love and adore my city to the core, but as a travel writer, there's always something else worth seeing
  
  I appreciate what you said about starting from scratch. Very true. In a past relationship, I was dependent on a lover, moved in with him and he ran off to China to do the whole RTW trip thing. Should have known then it was over and done. But, you live and you learn right?
  
  For now, Dutch lessons, writing and letting love run its course.
• goteresa

  

  • 17 posts
   

  June 17, 2011 9:31:19 AM CEST

  UPDATE:
  
  You guys were right. I'm making now my 3rd trip over and we've agreed to stay together We're in love and I'm moving out there in 2012. Yahoo!
  
  100% happy to make the move; a lot of my travel writer friends are in neighboring countries or even cities. I agree with so many of the nice sentiments I've read about the great quality of life. I didn't even realize the day I internally decided that I want to just live here. It was a good gut feeling.
  
  For now, I'm finishing up my studies (I am not that young; studies got delayed) and saving money and mentally preparing for everything that comes with this move.
  
  Thanks for all the advice!
• lillly

  

  • 123 posts
   

  June 17, 2011 11:24:08 AM CEST

  
  

  dolcecorazon (Jun 17 2011, 06:31 AM) said: > original post
  UPDATE:
  
  You guys were right. I'm making now my 3rd trip over and we've agreed to stay together We're in love and I'm moving out there in 2012. Yahoo!
  
  100% happy to make the move; a lot of my travel writer friends are in neighboring countries or even cities. I agree with so many of the nice sentiments I've read about the great quality of life. I didn't even realize the day I internally decided that I want to just live here. It was a good gut feeling.
  
  For now, I'm finishing up my studies (I am not that young; studies got delayed) and saving money and mentally preparing for everything that comes with this move.
  
  Thanks for all the advice!

  
  
  
  Congratulations and good luck with your move! It sounds as though you have done your homework and not rushed into anything too quickly. Long distance relationships aren't easy and especially across continents. My partner lives in NL but I am in UK so its easy to get over. I couldn't imagine how hard it would be to be further away. I'm also lucky in that I have flexible work that I can do anywhere so I can visit and work at the same time. I will move eventually but for now its a commute!
  In some ways maybe having to finish your course has helped to keep you grounded and given you the time you need to prepare? There are lots of people in your situation on these forums so I am sure you will get the help you need with sorting out the red tape and practicalities.
  It all sounds exciting and I hope you love your new life in NL.
• Ariannie

  

  • 200 posts
   

  June 17, 2011 12:21:25 PM CEST

  Grats
  www.ind.nl will be your best friend for some time, and there'll be loads of tips on the Relocations page.
  All the best!
• hillaryfox

  

  • 3 posts
   

  April 22, 2012 8:49:56 PM CEST

  Hey Teresa, I'm in a very similar situation! Would love to hear how it all turned out. Sent you a friend request on fb. Let's meet up for coffee if you're still in Holland. We have a lot in common! :)
• putsie

  

  • 5 posts
   

  September 27, 2012 7:39:11 AM CEST

  hello goteresa
  
  I have exactly the same situation and story. I guess this typicall dutch?
  Anyway, i would like to know if you are happy living in NL and how are things going over there?
  Please do share some stories about living in NL, thank you so much
• tuliper

  

  • 80 posts
   

  September 27, 2012 12:00:51 PM CEST

  goteresa said:
  This is my first post, so bare with me! This will be long as the situation is a bit complicated, but I've seen some great posts here and could really use some advice.
  
  I'm a female American, he's a native Dutchie. We met traveling 7 months ago in South America. We traveled together for 7 weeks; you can call it at the time a travel romance. We didn't know what to consider it; were intimate, but did have feelings. We went our separate ways, which was really hard, considering the feelings.
  
  For 4 months, we spoke online a lot, kept in touch. Both of us didn't really see nor find interest in anyone. In August, I went to visit him in The Netherlands to see him and visit other Dutch friends. We spent a month together and we picked up where we left off; it was great! I started to really fall for him. I got one of my Dutch girlfriends to talk to him and he told her if I lived there I'd be his girlfriend wayyy long time ago. While I was there, I went on a sailing trip with his brothers, met his parents (They had already known of me traveling with him before.) I stayed in his place the entire month. Our goodbyes were harder than the first. It was emotional but he said things like "We'll see each other again."
  
  Sounds good right? I am back home now as is he. I am currently learning the language.. I want nothing more than to be with him. I'm a travel writer who'd love to be an expat in Europe, regardless of the relationship. It's a deep plunge to take but I know I care about him a lot in 7 months of whatever you'd call this.
  
  As for him, besides what I know from my friend and how he acts- which is great. We constantly talk, there is obvious sexual banter/chemistry, he says he has no interest in other people nor the incline to. But, it seems like I don't know where things are going.
  
  Maybe I'm an insecure woman when I say that I see things are going well as is and I'm scared to start "asking questions" that men always hate. But, considering the life decisions I might make, I want to know if he finds this serious enough to pursue. I wrote him a letter addressing a few of these points and I think he felt overwhelmed or unable to express feelings.
  
  All of this is really starting to get to me and I hate confrontation and based on the other posts I've read, is this the Dutch in him or are these mixed signals a sign of uncertainty on his part? We're not technically official, should that worry me? Should I ask him where this is going? Am I crazy here everyone?
  
  Thanks for reading. Any advice/comments/criticism is greatly appreciated.

  Hi there, if that's you in the photo your a very pretty girl who can get who she wants and apparently you also gave this guy a big head and you gotta watch that with the Dutch because they always have pride and arrogance as part of their cultural behavior. DON'T CHASE A GUY DOWN. That's universal, they will always sense they can manipulate your feelings. Be a bit cold, as they can be. Oh and dutch guys love it when the woman chases them down and does all the work then they don't have to do much giving and get some free hoochie koochie too.  I say your overdoing it with one guy, there's a ton of them around here!

• osita

  

  • 2285 posts
   

  September 27, 2012 8:07:10 PM CEST

  Were you responding to her one year old post, or her orignial two year old post, Tuliper? You seem to have vast experience of Dutch men: did they all get away? Perhaps then, you've got Dutchmen figured out wrong, or you need work on your own technique before dispensing advice like that to others?
  
  Amazing; based on your previous posts, I'd have expected you to be negative and bitter! Oh, wait. . . .
• goteresa

  

  • 17 posts
   

  October 10, 2012 2:52:53 AM CEST

  putulie said:
  hello goteresa I have exactly the same situation and story. I guess this typicall dutch? Anyway, i would like to know if you are happy living in NL and how are things going over there? Please do share some stories about living in NL, thank you so much

  
  Hi everyone! Well there's good news and bad news.

   

  Good news: We are madly in love. I have a triple threat combo that this was his first long term relationship, he is Dutch and a Virgo- hehe! His love grew slowly, but true. We shared ILY's after a year (At Keukenhof of all places!) and we have now been together almost 3 years this March.

   

  Bad news: The Dutch govn't is making it DIFFICULT for us to be together. We had the intention of going on a relationship visa, but as you guys know the law changed.

   

  So, we decided to apply before the law changed this past June. I rushed over (My intended move was that July, so we rushed it a month) and with bad luck, my boy lost his job the day before our IND appt.

   

  Since he has no work, he doesn't meet the income requirement.

   

  As of today, he is still looking for work. I'm gonna make a post topic about this question, but I think even if he gets a job, I STILL can't come over because his contract needs to be valid 12 months from the time of application.   

   

  At the moment, we're trying to figure out what to do. I just graduated Uni and I had been accepted to Erasmus for a Master's program, but I had to postpone it due to our visa issues. 

   

  Happy my relationship is healthy, praying that we can figure out a way to be on the same continent. I won't stop until we get our happy ending.

   

  Happy to give any advice about Dutch men! 

• goteresa

  

  • 17 posts
   

  October 10, 2012 2:53:42 AM CEST

  hillaryfox said:
  Hey Teresa, I'm in a very similar situation! Would love to hear how it all turned out. Sent you a friend request on fb. Let's meet up for coffee if you're still in Holland. We have a lot in common! :)

  I'm replying so late to this; I am so glad we're in the same career circle! Are you in Holland at the moment? I'm still trying to figure my way over there. :(

• relleno

  

  • 56 posts
   

  October 17, 2012 2:24:52 AM CEST

  Why get a Visa? Just stay here "illegally" like everyone else.