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subtle discrimination - housing

Deleted Member
May 5, 2011 7:27:12 PM CEST

Good afternoon,

My name is Safia Hamidat and I am 27 years old. I am a British citizen of mixed parentage and I have been living in the Netherlands for 11 years. I speak Dutch fluently. I studied at an international school as well as European Studies at HBO level.

I have been looking for a place to rent in Amsterdam (with a Dutch friend) for months. It was suggested that I look into anti-kraak housing. My friend and I both registered on the site two days ago where we had to fill out a form - personal details, a photo, whether we were students or working, smoker or not. I also stated that I was looking for a house with a friend and that we both work fulltime.

My friend was called this afternoon and I wasn't. I thought it was strange so I decided to call the company. I asked if they had received my application. The young man I spoke to asked for my name and when I gave it he said 'oh we don't get those kind of names here'.....I ignored it. I then started some chitchat about how difficult it was to find housing in Amsterdam for young professionals and starters which is why I wanted to go down this route.

He told me that he understood but that there was no housing at all available at the moment (my friend had just been called because they had found a house for her). I went on to ask if there was a waiting list policy and then he said no, there wasn't and that people were chosen from the database according to 'representiviteit' and whether they thought that the candidate would be a good 'bewoner' for one of their houses.

At that point I told him that I knew he had contacted my friend and he was startled. He said yes, I just had her on the phone...'tjah..ze heeft geluk gehad' (yes..she was lucky).

I ended the conversation politely and felt very strange! I felt as if I had been discriminated against. So I called back, but he was busy so I left my number. He called once (one ring and before I could even pick up he had hung up) and then 5 minutes later again. I confronted him in a professional manner.

I told him that he had been discriminative because 1) his comment about my name 2) and that according to him he picked people based on representiviteit (appearance) and if they were suitable or not. All this based on a simple internet form with a photograph. Furthermore he had told me that there were no houses available.

We had a discussion (which I wrote down) and he said he felt insulted. He made points such as it’s mostly Dutch names like kees and jan who register and that my name was not common and that they look at age as well…he also retracted and said I had just told my colleague that you were a friend of the girl I was interviewing tomorrow and how he thought I was very suitable i.e. hardly any Dutch spelling mistakes, no piercing or tattoos etc. He was trying to justify his behaviour. I told him that it’s wrong to select people based on a name and photo and that he should be accurate when giving information – so instead of saying that there are no houses available and making it seem impossible, he should have said that he had a house but that it was being offered to someone else. Furthermore his comment about my name was uncalled for.

In my view this is an example of subtle discrimination and I really feel the need to take it further. How do I go about this? Ombudsman? Discrimination bureau? Political party?
quest
- 934 posts
May 5, 2011 7:53:12 PM CEST

I would not call this "subtle" discrimination, but "blatant" discrimination. Discrimination is discrimination, not matter how small and it all leads to alienating certain people. I hope you have the will to fight this. Check out http://www.cgb.nl/ which will issue an opinion free of charge. They have some information in English also.
pepec
- 2359 posts
May 5, 2011 7:58:44 PM CEST

I agree. This is not right. And it is completely nonsense that they are not used to foreign sounding names. It's Amsterdam for crying sake.
Another link that may be useful: http://www.mdra.nl/
Deleted Member
May 5, 2011 8:11:21 PM CEST

thanks quest...i will certainly get in touch with this organisation.

pepe..yeah but my name is arabic and the islamic communities here are generally not well regarded.....
pepec
- 2359 posts
May 5, 2011 8:13:06 PM CEST

safianl (May 5 2011, 06:11 PM) said: > original post
pepe..yeah but my name is arabic and the islamic communities here are generally not well regarded.....

That is true. And of course we can't control what people think. Still discrimination is illegal, no matter how some people think about Muslims.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
May 5, 2011 11:39:02 PM CEST

I wish I could give you a useful link too, but all I can offer you is a truckload of good luck!

I wonder what avocado in the legal forum would make of this...
korrok
- 572 posts
May 6, 2011 1:15:23 AM CEST

pepec (May 5 2011, 04:58 PM) said: > original post
I agree. This is not right. And it is completely nonsense that they are not used to foreign sounding names. It's Amsterdam for crying sake.
Another link that may be useful: http://www.mdra.nl/

I agree...they will be more than used to names from all kinds of places. There's more to it than that.

I hope you manage to sort something out, that kind of discrimination is disgusting - whether it was based on your name, your face, or whatever!
nic123
- 220 posts
May 6, 2011 10:54:45 AM CEST

He felt insulted! What a jerk! Can you write a letter of complaint to the actual anti-kraak people who employ him? That's what I would do.
gelato
May 6, 2011 11:05:33 AM CEST

I agree that this is blatant discrimination and that you should make complaints. I also don't see how "hardly any Dutch spelling mistakes" is at all relevant to your application. An immigrant may not speak Dutch perfectly and may make mistakes - but that does not mean that s/he should be denied housing. Being born in NL should not be a prerequisite to getting housing!
Deleted Member
May 6, 2011 11:26:17 AM CEST

thanks for your support guys. I have sent in a complaint to the cgb...I will first wait for their reaction. and I am going to send a complaint to the headquarters of this organisation.

my friend just told me that her appointment has been cancelled. She called and they said that they had now offered the house to someone else.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
May 6, 2011 12:56:40 PM CEST

safianl (May 6 2011, 09:26 AM) said: > original post
thanks for your support guys. I have sent in a complaint to the cgb...I will first wait for their reaction. and I am going to send a complaint to the headquarters of this organisation.

my friend just told me that her appointment has been cancelled. She called and they said that they had now offered the house to someone else.

Oh, that's interesting...

Do keep us in the loop...
niatrue
May 9, 2011 6:08:05 PM CEST

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It is blatant discrimination--on several levels--and I hope you throw every legal recourse at your disposal in their direction. Best of luck in making sure they don't get away with it!

Someone warned me that when my husband and I start to look for housing in Amsterdam (we plan to buy) that I should send him alone (he's white) because we'll likely get better options. True?
xetadog
- 75 posts
May 9, 2011 6:24:34 PM CEST

niatrue (May 9 2011, 03:08 PM) said: > original post
Someone warned me that when my husband and I start to look for housing in Amsterdam (we plan to buy) that I should send him alone (he's white) because we'll likely get better options. True?

no, it isn't. unless we paint them all with a very wide brush.
pepec
- 2359 posts
May 9, 2011 7:09:43 PM CEST

niatrue (May 9 2011, 04:08 PM) said: > original post
Someone warned me that when my husband and I start to look for housing in Amsterdam (we plan to buy) that I should send him alone (he's white) because we'll likely get better options. True?

http://www.funda.nl/koop/amsterdam/
Here are your options. (Almost) all houses in stock by real estate agents in the country can be found on Funda.
niatrue
May 9, 2011 7:21:46 PM CEST

pepec (May 9 2011, 04:09 PM) said: > original post
http://www.funda.nl/koop/amsterdam/
Here are your options. (Almost) all houses in stock by real estate agents in the country can be found on Funda.

Thanks, pepe. This is great. I've looked through it before but didn't realize it's more or less a central listing.

Xetadog, to clarify, what I want to know is, "How widespread is this kind of discrimination?" Are there statistics? Does it happen often across the country? Most often outside of the Randstad? Hardly ever anywhere? Only with renters? More frequently with buyers?
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
May 9, 2011 7:22:46 PM CEST

niatrue (May 9 2011, 04:08 PM) said: > original post
I'm so sorry this happened to you. It is blatant discrimination--on several levels--and I hope you throw every legal recourse at your disposal in their direction. Best of luck in making sure they don't get away with it!

Someone warned me that when my husband and I start to look for housing in Amsterdam (we plan to buy) that I should send him alone (he's white) because we'll likely get better options. True?

I don't know about housing here, but my son is African-Canadian and he was able to scoop two jobs, one in retail and one in an office, within a month of moving here for a year, and without a university degree. He was judged on his merit (he's fluent in French and English), and (Proud Mom alert!) his charm during an interview. People always asked him whether he was Morrocan (obviously not knowing his surname), but even then, he never felt that his ethnicity had an negative impact on his life here, really.

There are idiots, but fortunately there are checks and balances here to address these idiots. I'm really crossing my fingers that things work out for safiaNL...
niatrue
May 9, 2011 8:15:28 PM CEST

canuckywoman (May 9 2011, 04:22 PM) said: > original post
I don't know about housing here, but my son is African-Canadian and he was able to scoop two jobs, one in retail and one in an office, within a month of moving here for a year, and without a university degree. He was judged on his merit (he's fluent in French and English), and (Proud Mom alert!) his charm during an interview. People always asked him whether he was Morrocan (obviously not knowing his surname), but even then, he never felt that his ethnicity had an negative impact on his life here, really.

There are idiots, but fortunately there are checks and balances here to address these idiots. I'm really crossing my fingers that things work out for safiaNL...

That's encouraging because although a house/apartment is available that doesn't mean someone will actually rent/sell it to you (as Safia found out the hard way; been there; it's not fun). Does the decision of this group hold any legal weight/consequences?

I have to say, though, that it seems, given how much Dutch banks are regulated, that it must be really hard to discriminate when it comes to mortgage terms. Anyone know? But then again, neighborhoods in Amsterdam seem terribly segregated. Is that by choice or bank design/government indifference?

I have no worries about finding a job, though I have some concern about finding a position that matches my qualifications. On that score, I think gender might be more of an issue than race/ethnicity, which should work to my advantage (sadly).
Deleted Member
May 9, 2011 11:03:22 PM CEST

I called the cgb today and she said that she would get back to me. I am already losing the will to take it further - but then i think no way! this is the first time this has happened to me (i did notice this type of behaviour towards others - i have lived here for 11 years so i know the mentality).....

I have had no problems in getting jobs so far....I am educated. And i am actually more British(scottish) than anything (brought up there)

there is still segregation in this country...especially between Dutch and Dutch of moroccan/turkish origin...it also doesnt help that Mr Wilders is aggravating this type of intolerance...
Deleted Member
May 22, 2011 12:31:31 AM CEST

i got a house! and my complaint is being handled by the commissie gelijke behandeling!
lillly
- 123 posts
May 22, 2011 2:20:01 AM CEST

safianl (May 21 2011, 09:31 PM) said: > original post
i got a house! and my complaint is being handled by the commissie gelijke behandeling!

Great news! I hope you have a very happy home. Its just such a shame that you have had to go through so much to get it. I hope you have success with the complaint because someone should be held to account for their actions towards you.

Your tenacity will no doubt help others in your situation if the organisation now realises they cannot get away with discriminatory practices. Well done!

Enjoy your new home
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
May 22, 2011 11:32:12 AM CEST

Brill safia!!
peony
- 790 posts
May 22, 2011 1:11:19 PM CEST

safianl (May 21 2011, 10:31 PM) said: > original post
i got a house! and my complaint is being handled by the commissie gelijke behandeling!

Congrats!!!

And fingers crossed for the complain - if it passes it will also help others in the future and with time this kind of behavior will not be happening so often.
sunnydaze
- 227 posts
May 22, 2011 2:05:28 PM CEST

Wow, well sounds like you found a nasty type but have it all sorted. It is worth your while and those who come after you to complain. Well done
niatrue
May 25, 2011 5:41:20 PM CEST

Very cool. Congratulations, Happy Decorating, and best of luck with the complaint!
Avantaky
- 1 posts
June 27, 2011 8:04:03 PM CEST

Belgium and The Netherlands, as far as I know and have witnessed, are absolutely racist.

If you do not wish to handle with racism and discrimination, you cannot live in any of these 2 countries.

It is sad, but it is the reality.