canuckywoman (May 9 2011, 04:22 PM) said: > original post I don't know about housing here, but my son is African-Canadian and he was able to scoop two jobs, one in retail and one in an office, within a month of moving here for a year, and without a university degree. He was judged on his merit (he's fluent in French and English), and (Proud Mom alert!) his charm during an interview. People always asked him whether he was Morrocan (obviously not knowing his surname), but even then, he never felt that his ethnicity had an negative impact on his life here, really.
There are idiots, but fortunately there are checks and balances here to address these idiots. I'm really crossing my fingers that things work out for safiaNL...
That's encouraging because although a house/apartment is available that doesn't mean someone will actually rent/sell it to you (as Safia found out the hard way; been there; it's not fun). Does the decision of this group hold any legal weight/consequences?
I have to say, though, that it seems, given how much Dutch banks are regulated, that it must be really hard to discriminate when it comes to mortgage terms. Anyone know? But then again, neighborhoods in Amsterdam seem terribly segregated. Is that by choice or bank design/government indifference?
I have no worries about finding a job, though I have some concern about finding a position that matches my qualifications. On that score, I think gender might be more of an issue than race/ethnicity, which should work to my advantage (sadly).
Thanks, pepe. This is great. I've looked through it before but didn't realize it's more or less a central listing.
Xetadog, to clarify, what I want to know is, "How widespread is this kind of discrimination?" Are there statistics? Does it happen often across the country? Most often outside of the Randstad? Hardly ever anywhere? Only with renters? More frequently with buyers?
I'm so sorry this happened to you. It is blatant discrimination--on several levels--and I hope you throw every legal recourse at your disposal in their direction. Best of luck in making sure they don't get away with it!
Someone warned me that when my husband and I start to look for housing in Amsterdam (we plan to buy) that I should send him alone (he's white) because we'll likely get better options. True?
Osita, you can't think of a reasonable argument to refute what I'm saying so you resort to personal attacks. Petty, petty, petty. It's you who's stuck in the past and can't see my point, which is simple:
Pepe said, "...when the language of the oppressor becomes the official language, while the languages people use in everyday life are completely different, then there is something serious wrong." I was merely pointing out that TODAY "the language of the oppressor" IS THE NATIVE LANGUAGE of many FORMERLY oppressed people and that they often have no other language. I'm also saying there's not necessarily anything wrong with that. Language and culture evolve over time and no matter how determined the Dutch are (or anyone else), they can't stop that process.
What’s really interesting is that (white) European people see the loss of their native languages as global catastrophes. Because they have always visited this destruction on other people, that it should happen to them is an unspeakable outrage. To them, it is inconceivable that people who have lost the native languages of their ancestors (or parents) might eagerly embrace a replacement language, as I eagerly embrace my native language, English, despite the fact that my ancestors spoke many languages, languages I have no burning desire to learn. Can you imagine the Dutch eagerly embracing Turkish or Arabic, as Americans eagerly embrace Spanish and now Chinese in honor of our new financial overlords?
Halfdutch's example of Malaysia is an interesting variation on that theme: The language of a former oppressor/current economic partner is the language, not of integration/assimilation of non-native, conquered people, but of conciliation and compromise among a diverse group of native people (and no small number of immigrants). Nice.
I wasn't claiming to have mastered my native tongue—though I have—I was saying that formerly oppressed people have embraced and mastered the languages of their former oppressors (Morrison, Walker, Gabriel García Márquez, Linton Kwesi Johnson, 2Pac and on and on). I think most native speakers of any language are masters of their language. You don’t have to have a Pulitzer or even a college degree to be eloquent. You just have to understand and be understood by conveying emotion and knowledge.
Pepe, if you go back and read one of my earlier posts in this thread, I make exactly the same point you just did, that Dutch tenacity may keep their language alive for quite some time.