pepec (Jun 14 2010, 09:49 AM) said: > original post
While I understand your argument, I also think there is the usual judgment against the Dutch behind it. For example Belgium has exactly the same coffee culture as the Netherlands, and also the same lack of Starbucks. But I am sure that nobody would use the same line of argument against the Belgians. Italy has no Starbucks at all. But nobody would even suggest that their clinging to their espresso culture has anything to do with resistance to change.
At most Dutch cafes and restaurants are espresso machines worth thousands of Euros, where you can get a very decent cup of coffee. Maybe the Dutch coffee culture is different then in other countries, were Starbucks apparently is very popular. But that doesn't make it worse. Starbucks is no sign of a superior coffee culture.

I have to say... I have had so many BAD coffees here in Holland that I no longer expect to be able to find a decent one when out, and count myself very lucky if I do. Dutch coffee culture; well dutch people drink a lot of coffee thats true, but most of them wouldnt know good coffee if they fell over it. Koffie Verkeerd? Yes it is. Starbucks coffee, in comparison to a standard Italian coffee ANYWHERE in Italy, is crappy. But compared to the wide range of bad coffees I have found in Holland (yes dont worry there are other things I love about this country but coffee isnt one of them) Starbucks do make drinkable (average) coffee that is at least the same where ever you find them. And I do like their 'other' coffees, the Frappuchinos and Chai's... I dont think any serious coffee drinker would claim they make the best coffee, but I would imagine most would say their coffee is predictable and drinkable, you know what you will get. I have found, in my many years in Holland, that its a gamble when you order coffee, some is ok, some is swill. I sometimes even just order hot chocolate when in doubt about the cafe quality, because at least I know I will be able to drink that.

schuufieser (Jun 11 2010, 11:23 AM) said: > original post
the need to feel accepted... when that's not met, he goes into the "If you hate me, I will hate you right back" state. Maybe I am wrong, but if you are comfortable with who you are, what others think about you will be less important. We are all the center of our own little universe...

That is a good summary of pretty much all antagonism between different groups at present (ie muslim / non muslim, native / non native, black / white etc etc). Its probably why Wilders just won so many seats in the election: fear, hate, revenge, ignorance, self righteousness, stemming from an egotistic view of the world and ones place in it.

canuckywoman (Jun 7 2010, 11:36 AM) said: > original post
Meh...no biggie. And not like I don't agree! One of my weird little pleasures whenever I go to the UK is eating TOAST! The bread here is just too airy to toast properly.

mmm toast slice bread, hot and toasty on the outside soft in the middle

veldrin055 (May 28 2010, 09:55 AM) said: > original post
I already thought about this. If they try to make changes and things to to European courts, there will be a new election before anything gets resolved. I wouldn't worry about any extreme changes to immigration policies.

I doubt they will really 'try', its all campaign rhetoric of the worst kind, because they know many of the people they are negatively affecting have no vote here.

I had two C Sections, one in New Zealand one in The Netherlands. The first was due to CPD - proportion - no room for the baby to turn into the birth canal. I told the dutch doctors that I had the C Section and because it was the proportions etc - I really think they didnt believe that there was 'really' a medical reason for it, although I had also had the trial labour since there was still a chance for a natural birth with my first. So in fact I was 'encouraged' by the gyno here in holland to try for a natural birth again, that there was no reason why I shouldnt be able to have a natural birth just because my first was a C Section. Of course it was a C Section in the end, after a truly horrendous labour, which, compared with my first, was VERY under-supported by the midwife in the hospital (she was downright nasty). The C Section was of course for all the same reasons as the first - not enough room for the baby to turn and descend. In hindsight I wish I had been more insistant about the reasons for the first, because in fact I believe now they just brushed that off on the assumption that everywhere else C Sections are usually done when not necessary and 'only in the Netherlands' is the medical profession up to scratch wiht limiting them to medical reasons only.

All I can say is, it really depends on the reason for your first C Section, if it was because the baby was breach, and it isnt this time, then I wouldnt think it would be necessary.

I cant compare the difference in recovery etc because both mine were C Sections. I can say that it wasnt really bad or anything, and you can also have the Kraamzorg services for a bit longer if needed too. If you have another young child to run after then the faster your recovery the better however!

As it seems this it the OPs first child though, I would suggest making it very clear what you want in the event of complications. Why are you worried that you might need a C Section? Is there something specific that is concerning you regarding the birth? If there is then make sure someone can reassure you about it, your midwife should be the first one to discuss things with regarding the birth. Insist on getting all the information you need until YOU feel satisfied that you know everything you need to know.