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Need help from American living in NL w/Dutch partner.

sabetsu
- 588 posts
January 21, 2009 10:42:34 PM CET

Hallo everybody!

I am an American female seeking help!

I met my Dutch boyfriend on the Internet, but we've met twice since and hit it off big time. We have been planning to live together for a while now. So we are definitely sure about it.

I'll keep it short, sweet and full of details:

I'm American and live in Maine.
He is Dutch and living in The NL.
I want to live with him.
I have looked extensively online regarding my situation. I have also called Den Haag. Online, I could find little to no information about someone in my situation who wishes to move there. When I called Den Haag, a lady told me that since I am American, I can just up and move there. That doesn't sound right.

So... what are the rules for those of you who have been through this already? Even if it was a while ago, any information would help (meaning even if it is outdated information). The boyfriend is going to go get some information in the form of papers/pamphlets, but I want a first-hand account, I think it will help some.

Do we need to register our relationship before I move there?
I know about needing the Apostille on my birth certificate, and I have a valid US Passport.
What kinds of documents do I need? Where can I get them? Are any available online? How long does this usually take to go through before I can move? I assume I will need some kind of visa if I want to live with him, though the lady at Den Haag said that because I do not need a visa to enter, we can register @ the town hall and then just get my needed documents there. Understandably, I do not trust her.

Any information would help greatly.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
January 22, 2009 8:50:41 AM CET

sabetsu (Jan 21 2009, 10:42 PM) said: > original post
Hallo everybody!

I am an American female seeking help!

I met my Dutch boyfriend on the Internet, but we've met twice since and hit it off big time. We have been planning to live together for a while now. So we are definitely sure about it.

I'll keep it short, sweet and full of details:

I'm American and live in Maine.
He is Dutch and living in The NL.
I want to live with him.
I have looked extensively online regarding my situation. I have also called Den Haag. Online, I could find little to no information about someone in my situation who wishes to move there. When I called Den Haag, a lady told me that since I am American, I can just up and move there. That doesn't sound right.

So... what are the rules for those of you who have been through this already? Even if it was a while ago, any information would help (meaning even if it is outdated information). The boyfriend is going to go get some information in the form of papers/pamphlets, but I want a first-hand account, I think it will help some.

Do we need to register our relationship before I move there?
I know about needing the Apostille on my birth certificate, and I have a valid US Passport.
What kinds of documents do I need? Where can I get them? Are any available online? How long does this usually take to go through before I can move? I assume I will need some kind of visa if I want to live with him, though the lady at Den Haag said that because I do not need a visa to enter, we can register @ the town hall and then just get my needed documents there. Understandably, I do not trust her.

Any information would help greatly.

First of all, relax. The information you are seeking isn't unusual, unique or even hard to find.

Have you been to http://www.ind.nl/EN/index.asp yet? There is also a Dutch section your boyfriend can check out for more details.

Yes, as an American (or Canadian, or Australian...) you can come here without a visa. Once you arrive, you register as living at the same address as your boyfriend, then go to the IND to fill out the paperwork to get a residence permit.

The only catch is that your boyfriend needs to prove that he has a job that pays a minimum wage (that info is on the IND website too) with a contract of at least a year.

Yes bring all your paperwork...get the apostilles or whatever.

That's it. You can resume breathing.
mousecanning
January 22, 2009 12:44:00 PM CET

Yup, BREATHE! It is going to be ok! Promise.

I just did EXACTLY what you are trying to do, and it's really very simple so long as your Dutch boyfriend has a reasonable income. I just moved from New Hampshire to Amsterdam last July, so my info is pretty recent.

I came here on what is called a relationship visa, because we didn't want my stay here to be dependent on employment. (I'm an academic philosopher so employment is...blah) But you must trust your boyfriend more than anything to do this, because he has to take financial responsibility for you for the next 5 years. So I do mean seriously trust him. But I had only spent three weeks total with my Dutch boyfriend before moving here too, and we met on the internets as well. So it can be done. Six months in and we still haven't killed each other! :-D

The site CW sent is exactly what you need, and having a Dutch partner will make it much easier. Have him look over it all in Dutch, we found that reading it in his native language made it all that much easier for him because often the English translations are pretty bad and vague. Also bear in mind that there is NO centralization of information throughout this process. What this means is that the gemeente doesn't have a clue what IND does or needs, or vice versa. None of these places interact with each other, so they might give conflicting advice when you call them. Just follow the directions on paper.

First, come here. Register at the town hall (gemeente) in the town where you will reside. They will give you a sophie number. Then go to US Consulate and take an oath saying that you are not currently married. You have to pinky swear you aren't. Then they send you a letter called a proof of marital status. Then you send that off to get the apostille stamp. When you get the apostille stamped proof back, you go to IND after filling out a bunch of paperwork. They will put an extra stamp in your passport that says you are being processed, it expires 6 or 9? months later. Something like that. You go home. You wait. You wait some more. You keep waiting. You will call at least once with a question and get an answer that makes no sense. You will call back and get another completely different answer that also makes no sense. Just follow the instructions from the paperwork!

While you are waiting, the Dutch government is checking out who you are, making sure that your Dutch partner is really in a good position to support two people, twiddling their thumbs, picking their noses, shuffling some papers on a desk, sharpening pencils, and playing solitaire on the computer. IND has been very nice to me though, so you'll learn to love and hate them equally.

All things being in order, you will get an approval letter and have to go back to IND to get an official residency permit card.

I was not allowed to work at all during any of this, so seriously, your boyfriend needs to be prepared to support the household.

Residency permit is good for one year, and must be renewed each year. I think after 5 years you can do some more paperwork and go for being a permanent resident. But I'm not there yet, so don't know much about it.

If you are really serious about it, moving is worth all the hassle in the world. At the end of the day, I have few complaints about the process, but try to keep a sense of humor about it because otherwise you might go crazy with these people. Don't even get me started on those pleasant people at the Amsterdam gemeente (shudder!)

BEST OF LUCK!
sabetsu
- 588 posts
January 22, 2009 1:28:30 PM CET

Oh my god, thank you for easing my mind, both of you. I thought, there is no possible way I can just... GO somewhere and just be unprepared in such a way that you do everything there. But that is the way the Dutch do it apparently.

I've been taking lessons in language on my own and with someone I know personally who is Dutch for the past year, and it's a bit difficult but I'm getting through it.

Oh, man, I was so stressed out yesterday that the boyfriend even reiterated that he would come to America if the papers take too long to go through. But apparently this isn't the case.

Thanks again, guys, you don't know how much this means. ^^ I'll be lurking, and occasionally posting...
kelt_queen
January 26, 2009 9:12:38 PM CET

You don't have to go back to America while the process goes on, you can stay here. That's what I did.

The catch is the minimum wage requirement and the contract... that's the hard part sometimes...

Go to the IND site quoted above, it will give you all the information you need.

I moved here in April '08 from Alaska to be with my Dutch bf that I, too, met on the internet. It's been a roller coaster ride, but worth every second!

Good luck!

Don't hesitate to holler if you need more information.
mousecanning
January 26, 2009 10:52:07 PM CET

kelt_queen (Jan 26 2009, 08:12 PM) said: > original post
You don't have to go back to America while the process goes on, you can stay here. That's what I did.

Oops! Sorry, I might have been vague when I said then you go home and wait. Home being where you are living in the Netherlands. Indeed, you get to stay in the Netherlands for the duration of the process. My bad, should have been clearer. Hope I didn't cause any confusion...I have a bad tendency of calling both the US and NL home. Bah.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
January 27, 2009 8:39:26 AM CET

mousecanning (Jan 26 2009, 10:52 PM) said: > original post
I have a bad tendency of calling both the US and NL home. Bah.

Nee, not bad! Good!

What's bad is that you can't work while you wait. That being said, the wait isn't as bad as it used to be...
rainfrog
January 27, 2009 9:02:53 AM CET

I did the same, internet meeting, and have been here 8 1/2 years. My advice, on top of everything else said here, is to get yourself into an intensive language program in the time when you can't work. It will help keep you from going crazy as well as help learn the language, which you will need. I don't know the particulars about that, as it changes regularly and I was illegal for the first year I was here so my (now) husband paid for it out of pocket.
lightdancer
January 28, 2009 3:56:43 PM CET

I also did what you are wanting to do...moved here to be with my boyfriend in 2004 from Texas. I also met him on the internet! These Dutchies are avid internet folks! Anyway...

What I think I can add is that the info you are getting on the paperwork is correct, and the learning of the language right away is now no longer a voluntary thing. You must now do something called inburgering. The website you were directed to will give you information about this. I think that this inburgering process feels a bit invasive because it is mandatory. However, I can also say that learning the language will take you into Dutch life with much greater ease.

Inburgering was not in effect when I moved here to the extent that it is now. I was not offered any information, even on request, regarding language courses. Because it was not viewed as necessary by my partner, he let me do the shopping. I was not able to really shop...I didn't have the language skills! Life was moving at an incredible clip...and so, I took some courses but never really got the language. As a result, after four years, I was feeling so isolated and so marginalized and so LONELY because of the language thing. I don't live in a big city or work at a job where I get exposure to lots of other folks.

So, good for you that you are working with the language now! And when you arrive, ask about the inburgering! They should be able to refer you to the organization handling those details. Also, that website will have some info for you.

In addition to that...regarding inburgering...there is a forum here "Dutch News" where you will see folks talking about this.

My experience with the residence permit was that the first two years we renewed it for one year. The second renewal was for 3 years. So, that covered the first 5 years. Now I will apply for permanent residence. It will also have to be renewed, but will carry with it some additional benefits and rights.

My partner not only had to be able to stand financial scrutiny, he had to provide health insurance for me. Or perhaps it is more accurate to say that in addition to having adequate coverage in terms of money, you will also have to show you have acceptable health insurance as well.

Other than that....don't worry! I think that moving to Holland was probably the most challenging thing I have ever done. I think it takes quite some emotional maturity on the part of both people to handle the shift in paradigm that occurs on both sides of the relationship. It is, however, something I would never NOT do! I am happy and very, very well living here in Holland.
sabetsu
- 588 posts
January 28, 2009 6:22:33 PM CET

lightdancer (Jan 28 2009, 02:56 PM) said: > original post

I also did what you are wanting to do...moved here to be with my boyfriend in 2004 from Texas. I also met him on the internet! These Dutchies are avid internet folks! Anyway...

What I think I can add is that the info you are getting on the paperwork is correct, and the learning of the language right away is now no longer a voluntary thing. You must now do something called inburgering. The website you were directed to will give you information about this. I think that this inburgering process feels a bit invasive because it is mandatory. However, I can also say that learning the language will take you into Dutch life with much greater ease.

Inburgering was not in effect when I moved here to the extent that it is now. I was not offered any information, even on request, regarding language courses. Because it was not viewed as necessary by my partner, he let me do the shopping. I was not able to really shop...I didn't have the language skills! Life was moving at an incredible clip...and so, I took some courses but never really got the language. As a result, after four years, I was feeling so isolated and so marginalized and so LONELY because of the language thing. I don't live in a big city or work at a job where I get exposure to lots of other folks.

So, good for you that you are working with the language now! And when you arrive, ask about the inburgering! They should be able to refer you to the organization handling those details. Also, that website will have some info for you.

In addition to that...regarding inburgering...there is a forum here "Dutch News" where you will see folks talking about this.

My experience with the residence permit was that the first two years we renewed it for one year. The second renewal was for 3 years. So, that covered the first 5 years. Now I will apply for permanent residence. It will also have to be renewed, but will carry with it some additional benefits and rights.

My partner not only had to be able to stand financial scrutiny, he had to provide health insurance for me. Or perhaps it is more accurate to say that in addition to having adequate coverage in terms of money, you will also have to show you have acceptable health insurance as well.

Other than that....don't worry! I think that moving to Holland was probably the most challenging thing I have ever done. I think it takes quite some emotional maturity on the part of both people to handle the shift in paradigm that occurs on both sides of the relationship. It is, however, something I would never NOT do! I am happy and very, very well living here in Holland.

From before, thanks for clearing up the problem about "going home" -- I assumed you meant my residence in the NL. ^^; No problems.

We checked and he's a little bit above the minimum requirements for family formation, but he fits them. I also plan on bringing as much money as possible (duh!) to help with the insurance and household expenses (but yes, I do know that the NL is looking at his money, and not mine). You all have been very helpful, and I'm very excited to become an immigrant as an American. : D Now the only thing to do is get a place to live -- he's on some list.
mousecanning
January 28, 2009 6:39:15 PM CET

sabetsu (Jan 28 2009, 05:22 PM) said: > original post
Now the only thing to do is get a place to live -- he's on some list.

Oh no! Not the list! Ugh, that stupid list. He's probably on a lottery type list, it's very common here for housing. I really do wish you the best of luck with that, some friends of mine recently got a fabulous apartment from being on the list, but they were waiting a very long time.

Definitely getting a jump start on the language is an excellent idea, and taking courses while you can't work is a great way to pass the time. It's helpful and and it can be a great place to meet other expats. I've found that the most difficult thing for me while I couldn't work (and still don't while I wait for an interview at the university) has been not having friends of my very own that are not connected to the boyfriend in some way. I miss my friends from home, and being completely candid about things that girls like to talk about with each other, relationship complaints and a myriad of other details that absolutely none of his friends want to hear anything about.

Moving this far away is almost like starting from the ground up in many ways. But definitely worth it. I now have two homes: one with mountains and sunshine and almost no people, and one with diversity and things to do and..well...rain. There's a lot of rain here.
theoneawaited
- 29 posts
March 3, 2009 5:48:46 AM CET

Hello all!

This thread has really helped me a lot! I am going to be moving to Holland in 1-2 months to be with my boyfriend as well. I downloaded the residence permit forms from the IND website, have all my documents, and think I know what to do next.

Just some things I'm wondering about. Like the cost of the residence permit. Is it really 830 euros? And do you have to pay that up front or can you pay in installments? And how long does it usually take for those of you to get your residence permits?

How long after were you able to get a work permit?

Was it easy for you guys to get insurance?

Thanks for answering my questions! Hope this thread still gets looked at by you!
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 3, 2009 10:40:29 AM CET

theoneawaited (Mar 3 2009, 05:48 AM) said: > original post
Hello all!

This thread has really helped me a lot! I am going to be moving to Holland in 1-2 months to be with my boyfriend as well. I downloaded the residence permit forms from the IND website, have all my documents, and think I know what to do next.

Just some things I'm wondering about. Like the cost of the residence permit. Is it really 830 euros? And do you have to pay that up front or can you pay in installments? And how long does it usually take for those of you to get your residence permits?

How long after were you able to get a work permit?

Was it easy for you guys to get insurance?

Thanks for answering my questions! Hope this thread still gets looked at by you!

Yep, it's 830 euros. And, no, you can't pay it in installments.

Lately it's taken anywhere between six weeks and three months for most to get their permits, which doubles as a work permit.
mousecanning
March 3, 2009 10:57:02 AM CET

canuckywoman (Mar 3 2009, 09:40 AM) said: > original post
Yep, it's 830 euros. And, no, you can't pay it in installments.

Lately it's taken anywhere between six weeks and three months for most to get their permits, which doubles as a work permit.

Sorry CW, it looks as though the average waiting time for people in this situation (relationship permit only) is around 5 to 6 months for all of us who started last summer. I was one of them, and other expats I know who came at the same time and did the same thing waited about that long. 6 weeks to 3 months would have been a miracle! Perhaps the renewal time is that short...I'll find out later this year!
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 3, 2009 11:05:04 AM CET

mousecanning (Mar 3 2009, 10:57 AM) said: > original post
Sorry CW, it looks as though the average waiting time for people in this situation (relationship permit only) is around 5 to 6 months for all of us who started last summer. I was one of them, and other expats I know who came at the same time and did the same thing waited about that long. 6 weeks to 3 months would have been a miracle! Perhaps the renewal time is that short...I'll find out later this year!

Blimey, has it gone up again??? They were doing so well, too...

An old colleague of mine who arrived at the end of 2006 waited only six weeks! That's the best case scenario I've heard so far. I heard about others who arrived around the same time who waited on average around three months. Damn. Sorry to hear it's gotten longer again.

I'm pretty well the worst-case scenario...about a year. Applied August; didn't get card in hand until the following August after filing an official complaint with the IND. But that was in 2004...
sabetsu
- 588 posts
March 3, 2009 4:58:35 PM CET

I'd hate to say it, but I'm actually looking forward to inburgering. Anyway, the Apostille thing still has me worried for some reason! Aren't I supposed to get that done, on my birth certificate or something to prove its validity to the Netherlands, while I'm still here in the states by going to a Dutch Consulate? I could have sworn there was something like that I have to do.

Also, must I fill all these things out before I leave? http://www.ind.nl/en/algemeen/brochures/Fo...ieren/index.asp And send them in to the IND? Or does that all also wait until I am there? Because on the IND, they lead you to minbuz.nl, which says that documents such as birth, marriage, and death certificates must be legalized with an apostille prior to coming to the Netherlands, but I was being told that I can get my apostille when I go to the Netherlands, without having gotten one in America first. This is all super confusing. It also says in a PDF from the IND that If the documents in question were legalized or apostilled after 15 May 2006, I will have to include the questionnaire drawn up by the Dutch Embassy or Consulate.

So basically, do I have to get those papers apostilled here or not, because it sounds like I have to get it done in America, but I am not aware of any questionnaire, I assume I'll be given one at some point but how do I get it if there's no link to it anywhere? This is making me worried and driving me nuts! Sheesh, lol.

Also, from reading more docs from the IND, it appears that it is beneficial to fill out an MVV even if I'm American and don't need one, because they said that if you have an MVV, you almost never will be denied a real residence permit afterwards.

Can anyone fill me in on these things? Helllp. It kind of seems like a snake eating its own tail - if I apply for MVV, I have to have a registered partner, and don't we have to do that in the Netherlands, not in separate countries? Argh!
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 3, 2009 6:08:20 PM CET

sabetsu (Mar 3 2009, 04:58 PM) said: > original post
I'd hate to say it, but I'm actually looking forward to inburgering.

So did I...so did I!

sabetsu (Mar 3 2009, 04:58 PM) said: > original post
Also, from reading more docs from the IND, it appears that it is beneficial to fill out an MVV even if I'm American and don't need one, because they said that if you have an MVV, you almost never will be denied a real residence permit afterwards.

Seems like a waste of time and money especially if the requirements are the same. If you are confident that your partner makes the minimum wage with a contract of at least a year, then just show up here and apply for the permit. Few get turned down except for wage/contract issues. You can stay here for three months anyways; if you have a permit application in progress, then you get a stamp in your passport that allows you to stay until it is processed and a decision is made.

The permit application itself is done here after you arrive because you have to submit proof from the gemeente that you are registered at your partner's address.
mousecanning
March 3, 2009 7:22:20 PM CET

sabetsu (Mar 3 2009, 03:58 PM) said: > original post
I'd hate to say it, but I'm actually looking forward to inburgering. Anyway, the Apostille thing still has me worried for some reason! Aren't I supposed to get that done, on my birth certificate or something to prove its validity to the Netherlands, while I'm still here in the states by going to a Dutch Consulate? I could have sworn there was something like that I have to do.

Also, must I fill all these things out before I leave? http://www.ind.nl/en/algemeen/brochures/Fo...ieren/index.asp And send them in to the IND? Or does that all also wait until I am there? Because on the IND, they lead you to minbuz.nl, which says that documents such as birth, marriage, and death certificates must be legalized with an apostille prior to coming to the Netherlands, but I was being told that I can get my apostille when I go to the Netherlands, without having gotten one in America first. This is all super confusing. It also says in a PDF from the IND that If the documents in question were legalized or apostilled after 15 May 2006, I will have to include the questionnaire drawn up by the Dutch Embassy or Consulate.

So basically, do I have to get those papers apostilled here or not, because it sounds like I have to get it done in America, but I am not aware of any questionnaire, I assume I'll be given one at some point but how do I get it if there's no link to it anywhere? This is making me worried and driving me nuts! Sheesh, lol.

Also, from reading more docs from the IND, it appears that it is beneficial to fill out an MVV even if I'm American and don't need one, because they said that if you have an MVV, you almost never will be denied a real residence permit afterwards.

Can anyone fill me in on these things? Helllp. It kind of seems like a snake eating its own tail - if I apply for MVV, I have to have a registered partner, and don't we have to do that in the Netherlands, not in separate countries? Argh!

One more time darling, BREATHE! It will be ok! Well, can't promise you'll get the permit, but really, it's less complicated in practice than it looks on paper.

Follow CW's advice, it is a waste of time and money to fill out an MVV, residency permits are all about the money (mostly for complicated political reasons but I'll spare you the details.) If your partner makes the minimum 120% of minimum wage and has a steady income with a one year contract, unless you have a criminal record of some kind or are currently married (and I graciously assume neither is the case ) you will more than likely get the residency permit.

You do not have to worry about the Apostille stamp for the birth certificate right away so long as the birth certificate you bring with you is NOT a copy. It has to be an original issue from the state of your birth, mine happened to be a reissued one, and that was fine because it was the original from the state I was born in. The apostille stamp is only required in order to get married or other legal matters (I still haven't done it, perhaps this means I won't get married...) The apostille stamp will have to come from the US in the end, but you do not have to have any of these things done in order to get the permit.

The one thing they are very concerned about is that you are not actually married to someone else (yet again, for fun political reasons) but the only place on the face of this earth that I know of that you can get this thing they call an "affidavit of civil status" (essentially proof that you are not married) is the US Consulate in Amsterdam. Really and truly, you can't do it anywhere else, and my Dutch partner (being Dutch) refused to believe this and called just about any and all US offices (including my town hall...sheeeeesh!) and all of them thought he was crazy. This affidavit is something the Dutch have invented for themselves, it doesn't exist in the US, and you can only get it here. The US consulate deals with all technically "US" paperwork, like if you lose your passport.

The process is simple, I think I outlined it above pretty well, but I completely understand that your head must be spinning right now. Best of luck!
sabetsu
- 588 posts
March 3, 2009 7:37:25 PM CET

mousecanning (Mar 3 2009, 06:22 PM) said: > original post
One more time darling, BREATHE! It will be ok! Well, can't promise you'll get the permit, but really, it's less complicated in practice than it looks on paper.

Follow CW's advice, it is a waste of time and money to fill out an MVV, residency permits are all about the money (mostly for complicated political reasons but I'll spare you the details.) If your partner makes the minimum 120% of minimum wage and has a steady income with a one year contract, unless you have a criminal record of some kind or are currently married (and I graciously assume neither is the case ) you will more than likely get the residency permit.

You do not have to worry about the Apostille stamp for the birth certificate right away so long as the birth certificate you bring with you is NOT a copy. It has to be an original issue from the state of your birth, mine happened to be a reissued one, and that was fine because it was the original from the state I was born in. The apostille stamp is only required in order to get married or other legal matters (I still haven't done it, perhaps this means I won't get married...) The apostille stamp will have to come from the US in the end, but you do not have to have any of these things done in order to get the permit.

The one thing they are very concerned about is that you are not actually married to someone else (yet again, for fun political reasons) but the only place on the face of this earth that I know of that you can get this thing they call an "affidavit of civil status" (essentially proof that you are not married) is the US Consulate in Amsterdam. Really and truly, you can't do it anywhere else, and my Dutch partner (being Dutch) refused to believe this and called just about any and all US offices (including my town hall...sheeeeesh!) and all of them thought he was crazy. This affidavit is something the Dutch have invented for themselves, it doesn't exist in the US, and you can only get it here. The US consulate deals with all technically "US" paperwork, like if you lose your passport.

The process is simple, I think I outlined it above pretty well, but I completely understand that your head must be spinning right now. Best of luck!

Thanks again for your patience, it's kind of scary to go see some other information elsewhere that conflicts with the "good" information -- if you know what I mean Ok, I will trust you on this. At least I do have my original BC. We're still waiting for housing, but I want everything to be in order beforehand, because we're still not sure how long it's going to take to get a house/apartment/whatever, but as soon as he has one we're going to try for this. Thank you once more for your patience and answers, it helps so much, I hope someday I can help someone in a similar situation.
mousecanning
March 4, 2009 12:01:37 AM CET

Ok, I really need to get a life, but here:

http://france.usembassy.gov/root/pdfs/paris-usapostille.pdf

this is a link that has the offices and hours of all the state departments in the US where you can get an apostille stamp on your birth certificate. You can do it before you leave the US if you want, but I'm just mailing mine in. I guess, if I ever stop being lazy. But that is also unlikely. Anyway, if it would give you peace of mind, you can just have it done before you leave. Tahdah!

And I'm not really stalking your problem, I just realized I might want to get it done too if I ever want to get married. Ik ben niet gek, ik ben een vliegtuig! WEEEEEE!

Definitely laying off the coffee tomorrow.
kelt_queen
March 4, 2009 9:19:25 AM CET

I don't mean to contradict what others have stated, but I needed the apostillized (?) birth certificate as well as an apostillized divorce certificate to take with me to the IND. If you are still in America, it's probably safest to get it done before you get here. That way you are not mailing things back and forth to America from here. I too, am here for a Dutch partner from America.

I landed here in April '08, went to the IND in July '08 and had my permit in hand in Oct '08. So that was just about 3 months.

One other thing to keep in mind, you can stay here with your partner once you have filed the paperwork with the IND until the decision is made about your status. If things don't go smoothly, you can stay here with him while you are in the appeal process. No one told me that when I was going thru it, and I thought after I filed with IND, I would have to go home once my 3 months were up on my visitor visa. The best news I got that day was that I could stay here through it all.

Good luck! I hope it goes as smoothly for you as it did for me!
mousecanning
March 4, 2009 10:58:06 AM CET

kelt_queen (Mar 4 2009, 08:19 AM) said: > original post
I don't mean to contradict what others have stated, but I needed the apostillized (?) birth certificate as well as an apostillized divorce certificate to take with me to the IND. If you are still in America, it's probably safest to get it done before you get here. That way you are not mailing things back and forth to America from here. I too, am here for a Dutch partner from America.

This is where the whole process got very fun for us. We were sitting in the gemeente with a man who refused to speak English to me at all. He starts going on and on about all the details on how to get the apostille stamp. So we start asking the relevant questions back, such as: when are we required to have this done by, what step in the process needs this paperwork done, etc. Then he looks up, scratches his head and says that it's not "required" that we do this, but if we want to get married it will have to be done. So we asked what happens if we just wait, and he said that was fine as well. So here I am, with a residency permit, but no apostille stamp. These people (gemeente and IND) are all completely nuts, so we learned early on not to trust a word they say. You don't "have" to get the apostille, it's just recommended, but I haven't had any issues because I chose to wait. But then again, some days I think they just change the requirements for these things on a per person daily basis just for fun.
christianbarth
- 4294967295 posts
March 4, 2009 2:34:08 PM CET

mousecanning (Mar 4 2009, 09:58 AM) said: > original post
This is where the whole process got very fun for us. We were sitting in the gemeente with a man who refused to speak English to me at all. He starts going on and on about all the details on how to get the apostille stamp. So we start asking the relevant questions back, such as: when are we required to have this done by, what step in the process needs this paperwork done, etc. Then he looks up, scratches his head and says that it's not "required" that we do this, but if we want to get married it will have to be done. So we asked what happens if we just wait, and he said that was fine as well. So here I am, with a residency permit, but no apostille stamp. These people (gemeente and IND) are all completely nuts, so we learned early on not to trust a word they say. You don't "have" to get the apostille, it's just recommended, but I haven't had any issues because I chose to wait. But then again, some days I think they just change the requirements for these things on a per person daily basis just for fun.

Foreign legal documents like birth certificates must be legalized according to the rules of the Dutch government. I personally have represented American clients who lost their residence permits for failing to provide an apostilled birth certificate or marriage certificate. Plus the requirement appears in plain English on the IND forms and on the Dutch govt. websites.

The IND will not accept a 'single status' certificate from the American consulate in Amsterdam from Americans who do not presently hold an NL residence permit. If it is an initial application for residence, then the IND requires that the 'single status' certificate be obtained from the dept. of records of the last residence the applicant had in the US.

I met a new client a few weeks ago (American partner of Dutch woman) because the IND had denied his residence permit application. He had submitted a single status statement from the American consulate but since he did not already have a Dutch permit, IND rejected it (using reasoning from Dutch Foreign Ministry).

The solution was to obtain a 'certificate of no record of marriage' from Los Angeles County in California which we then got apostilled.

I know in the past IND used to accept these affadavits from new American arrivals but believe me they don't accept them now unless the individual already has a Dutch permit.

Christian Barth, Esq.
www.expatlaw.nl
mousecanning
March 4, 2009 3:03:01 PM CET

christianbarth (Mar 4 2009, 01:34 PM) said: > original post
Foreign legal documents like birth certificates must be legalized according to the rules of the Dutch government. I personally have represented American clients who lost their residence permits for failing to provide an apostilled birth certificate or marriage certificate. Plus the requirement appears in plain English on the IND forms and on the Dutch govt. websites.

The IND will not accept a 'single status' certificate from the American consulate in Amsterdam from Americans who do not presently hold an NL residence permit. If it is an initial application for residence, then the IND requires that the 'single status' certificate be obtained from the dept. of records of the last residence the applicant had in the US.

I met a new client a few weeks ago (American partner of Dutch woman) because the IND had denied his residence permit application. He had submitted a single status statement from the American consulate but since he did not already have a Dutch permit, IND rejected it (using reasoning from Dutch Foreign Ministry).

The solution was to obtain a 'certificate of no record of marriage' from Los Angeles County in California which we then got apostilled.

I know in the past IND used to accept these affadavits from new American arrivals but believe me they don't accept them now unless the individual already has a Dutch permit.

Christian Barth, Esq.
www.expatlaw.nl

I'm sorry, but the order of your answer simply doesn't make any sense to me since it is a requirement that you get the affidavit of civil status BEFORE you can get your 1 year residency permit, but there was no such thing as a department of records where I last resided, or a place where I could obtain the affidavit. I received my affidavit here, at the US Consulate in Amsterdam, as there was no other place on earth that we could find that issued such a thing. I received my residency permit just fine. I also do not have an apostille stamp on my birth certificate, simply a stamp from the gemeente stating that it is valid and official, with directions for obtaining the apostille stamp should I wish to have it done. With how obnoxious the IND can be about requirements, I highly doubt we slipped through the cracks somehow and snuck me a permit.
mousecanning
March 4, 2009 3:05:03 PM CET

canuckywoman (Mar 3 2009, 10:05 AM) said: > original post
Blimey, has it gone up again??? They were doing so well, too...

An old colleague of mine who arrived at the end of 2006 waited only six weeks! That's the best case scenario I've heard so far. I heard about others who arrived around the same time who waited on average around three months. Damn. Sorry to hear it's gotten longer again.

I'm pretty well the worst-case scenario...about a year. Applied August; didn't get card in hand until the following August after filing an official complaint with the IND. But that was in 2004...

Woops! My mistake! The entire process, from the time I set foot on swamp soil until I got my permit was 5 months, but that included waiting for the sophie number, affidavit of civil status, etc. From the time I handed in the application to IND to the day I received the actual physical residency permit card was about 3 months, so IND itself was pretty quick. I need to drink less coffee.