Hello!
I am a KM. My girlfriend is illegaly in the Natherlands. I want to legalise her here. First we wanted to marry in our country and then I could invite her as a wife. But rcently I heard that it is possible to do this right here with help of advocates and our embassy. Is here anybody familiar with this situation (KM or lawer)? I am looking for an advice and a refference to a good lawyer, who can help (if there is one).
Thank you.
AlexPi said:
Hello!
I am a KM. My girlfriend is illegaly in the Natherlands. I want to legalise her here. First we wanted to marry in our country and then I could invite her as a wife. But rcently I heard that it is possible to do this right here with help of advocates and our embassy. Is here anybody familiar with this situation (KM or lawer)? I am looking for an advice and a refference to a good lawyer, who can help (if there is one).
Thank you.
If your girlfriend is illegally in NL, the last thing you want to do is bring her to City Hall (GBA) to start the marriage process. If she requires an MVV to be here, they will call the Aliens Police to arrest her and start deportation proceedings. If she doesn't require an MVV to be here, they might not arrest her if she is in the process of applying for residence as well - but it's their option.
The bigger issue is what happens when your girlfriend leaves NL - if she is caught and marked as an 'overstaýer' or 'illegal', it could have negative consequences for any subsequent application you file on her behalf. We have seen many similar situations in our practice, if you give us a call, we will try to help you.
Christian Barth, Attorney
AlexPi said:
Hello! A short update. I called to several lawyers including Mr. Christian Barth who kindly explained me the situation. All of the lawyers had the same opinion about this... except one. I have found the lawyer who has agreed to help us with legalisation. He said that it is possible to do it with some efforts from his side. It may take up to one year but it is possible. We have already received an invitation to IND. We do not know if it will work but we are happy that there is somebody who can try to help us. Regards.
Did this lawyer explain what he could do for you that everyone else can't do? Inquiring minds want to know.
Christian Barth, Attorney
All of the lawyers had the same opinion about this... except one. I have found the lawyer who has agreed to help us with legalisation.
AlexPi said:
We considered that but it may be the same flag when she tries to cross the border on her way back. Another thing is that if she crosses the border without any marks in the passport, then during the process of invitation they can find out that she was illegally in the Netherlands. Then they can reject her application, and "flag" her for 2 years. So, we decided to try this way. And it allows us to stay together which is very important for us.
There's one misconception you are operating on here-- even if she gets flagged on her way home and the IND is aware, when you start the advice procedure for an MVV, that she had once been staying illegally in the Netherlands, that is still not legal grounds to reject her application. (It will be legal grounds for them to investigate the genuineness of your relationship with her, though, because they will want to make sure that it's not just a matter of her paying you to get her legal. If your relationship is genuine and you can prove it, though, you have nothing to worry about.)
Getting flagged for having overstayed her tourist visa illegally is only legal grounds to deny her re-entry as a tourist.
What the lawyer you found is going to try to do is have her file an application in the Netherlands and then claim that she should be exempted from the MVV requirement because it is an incredible hardship and it would be a violation of her human right to family life (article 8, European Convention on Human Rights) to make her be separated from you for any time at all.
I see about 0% chance of your lawyer winning that argument. I can anticipate the argument of the IND's lawyer-- they will say, roughly-- "Hardship? Hardly! As the partner of a kennismigrant, she is eligible for the accelerated MVV procedure, getting one within 2-3 weeks, and she doesn't have a requirement to pass a basic integration exam at the Dutch embassy either."
So it will take you 4-6 months of proceedings before you will finally get to hear from the IND that it would have been much easier and cheaper for her to go back in the first place and for you to sponsor her for an MVV (it will be an accelerated procedure if you can get your employer to file the application for you, because then she will fall under the kennismigrant department of the IND).
It is also to your advantage for her to do this sooner rather than later, because until July 1 she can go back and then come back as your unmarried partner, i.e. you will not have to marry her in her home country first.
christianbarth said:
Did this lawyer explain what he could do for you that everyone else can't do? Inquiring minds want to know.
Christian Barth, Attorney
he explained it in general, that there is a Europian law which allows her to stay with me (this is probably what avocado ment in his post). Also he told me that there is a change in the Dutch law which allow them to reject her application for an MVV from the origin country. That is why we decided not to go back.
If he lies about the result ... this is not pleasant, of course. We want to try it first... I hope he is a smart person and understands that he can earn much more if he succeds in this. Such people like we know many similar cases, and would recomend him for others.
let's see first...
avocado said:There's one misconception you are operating on here-- even if she gets flagged on her way home and the IND is aware, when you start the advice procedure for an MVV, that she had once been staying illegally in the Netherlands, that is still not legal grounds to reject her application. (It will be legal grounds for them to investigate the genuineness of your relationship with her, though, because they will want to make sure that it's not just a matter of her paying you to get her legal. If your relationship is genuine and you can prove it, though, you have nothing to worry about.)
Getting flagged for having overstayed her tourist visa illegally is only legal grounds to deny her re-entry as a tourist.
What the lawyer you found is going to try to do is have her file an application in the Netherlands and then claim that she should be exempted from the MVV requirement because it is an incredible hardship and it would be a violation of her human right to family life (article 8, European Convention on Human Rights) to make her be separated from you for any time at all.
I see about 0% chance of your lawyer winning that argument. I can anticipate the argument of the IND's lawyer-- they will say, roughly-- "Hardship? Hardly! As the partner of a kennismigrant, she is eligible for the accelerated MVV procedure, getting one within 2-3 weeks, and she doesn't have a requirement to pass a basic integration exam at the Dutch embassy either."
So it will take you 4-6 months of proceedings before you will finally get to hear from the IND that it would have been much easier and cheaper for her to go back in the first place and for you to sponsor her for an MVV (it will be an accelerated procedure if you can get your employer to file the application for you, because then she will fall under the kennismigrant department of the IND).
It is also to your advantage for her to do this sooner rather than later, because until July 1 she can go back and then come back as your unmarried partner, i.e. you will not have to marry her in her home country first.
Thank you for the explanation. It is quit clear for me but I cannot say what the lawyer is going to do.
I will post updates here...
AlexPi said:
christianbarth said:Did this lawyer explain what he could do for you that everyone else can't do? Inquiring minds want to know.
Christian Barth, Attorney
he explained it in general, that there is a Europian law which allows her to stay with me (this is probably what avocado ment in his post). Also he told me that there is a change in the Dutch law which allow them to reject her application for an MVV from the origin country. That is why we decided not to go back.
If he lies about the result ... this is not pleasant, of course. We want to try it first... I hope he is a smart person and understands that he can earn much more if he succeds in this. Such people like we know many similar cases, and would recomend him for others.
let's see first...
Umm so you are saying you are taking this route based on the off chance that they MIGHT reject her application for an MVV? Really? Why would they reject her application?
I still think you are much better off sending her home and starting all over again than it is to go the route your lawyer is trying .. whatever that route may be.
I say that because A LOT of partners have overstayed their visit and are living under the radar, illegally here. Meaning they have no insurance etc and the system absolutely abhors this situation but they don't have the money etc to stop everyone on the street and ask for their papers.
Í think if there were a viable/easy way for these illegal partners to file some form so that they can suddenly become legal - first off, they would have closed that window lonnng ago. And second ... what would be the point of all the other people going through the hassle of applying for residency for their wives .. the right way?
So hey, people will think (shrugs) they can disregard the law and bring over their women and stay as long as they want .. and whenever they feel like being legal .. they can hire a lawyer and fill out .. another form or whatever and poof ... they are now legal. This makes no sense to me.
It's not too late. I would call that lawyer and put a stop to this whole thing, send your girlfriend home and have her apply for the MVV just like everyone else. If they decline the MVV (which again, what would be the reason they would decline it?) THAT's the time you need to hire a Dutch lawyer to fight this decision.
(shrugs) This just makes more sense to me.
Dear all,
Thank you for your advises and discussion. It is important for me.
I did not return earlier because there was nothing to tell. My girlfriend has gotten a sticker for 6 months into her passport for E1250. This is a standard procedure and does not mean anything about the IND's intentions. We are happy anyway that she can now register officially in the city hall, get insurance, and other life matters.
See you later.
AlexPi said:
Dear all,
Thank you for your advises and discussion. It is important for me.
I did not return earlier because there was nothing to tell. My girlfriend has gotten a sticker for 6 months into her passport for E1250. This is a standard procedure and does not mean anything about the IND's intentions. We are happy anyway that she can now register officially in the city hall, get insurance, and other life matters.
See you later.
It is a shame that so many lawyers decided to lay it on thick and use scare tactics to get them to use them so that backfired on them so they didn't deserve your business. Instead, you went with the one that said what you wanted to hear but not necessarily the best route. I will say that while each country is different, overall they act similarly in the following manner. If you are married and the spouse is illegal, it is simpler and quicker to have the illegal spouse return home and apply. You will spend more more time and money and remain in a limbo state than you would have if you had sent your spouse home and may still not get the result you desire. The only nice thing you have now is the temp visa which allows her to get insurance and register which is nice. Good Luck with the rest.
Captcha stinks
jess30 said:
Dear Expatica,
I'm a USA Citizen Working for an American Branch, I recently was Assaulted by my team leader and now the company is pressuring me to quit. Are my right protected under the US law?
Any feed back would be much appreciated.
Are you serious? Look don't wait. See an employment lawyer before you sign anything. They are obvious trying to screw you. Whether or not you have a case under usa law, you would have to initiate it in usa court probably against the company for hostile work environment. You are in Holland so your first call is a dutch employment lawyer.
Captch is bad
mvn said:It is a shame that so many lawyers decided to lay it on thick and use scare tactics to get them to use them so that backfired on them so they didn't deserve your business. Instead, you went with the one that said what you wanted to hear but not necessarily the best route. I will say that while each country is different, overall they act similarly in the following manner. If you are married and the spouse is illegal, it is simpler and quicker to have the illegal spouse return home and apply. You will spend more more time and money and remain in a limbo state than you would have if you had sent your spouse home and may still not get the result you desire. The only nice thing you have now is the temp visa which allows her to get insurance and register which is nice. Good Luck with the rest.
Captcha stinks
Unfortunately, we are not married. You are probably right about the lawer but we have made this choice deliberately, mostly for other reasons then just money.
and you are right that captcha sucks
AlexPi said:
Unfortunately, we are not married. You are probably right about the lawer but we have made this choice deliberately, mostly for other reasons then just money.
and you are right that captcha sucks
Seems to me that if you don't bother getting married, you are purposely shooting yourself in the foot which is why you should have left the country to get married. As I explained before, the authorities would have let your wife back in because you are married but it sounds unlikely they will let her stay because you want to get married. I want to be a millionaire, doesn't mean it is going to happen.
Let us be captcha
AlexPi said:
Update: As the lawyer expected the IND rejected his application for my girlfriend. He has submitted the appeal to the court. IND says it will take three months more. So, further news will come in December. See you then...
Please update. I have the exact same situation. My gf has booked the flight back home next month and she'll probably get a flag on her passport.
We're not married yet. I also want to know how to bring her back here next year. Do I need to get back to my country and get married first? What conditions should i meet to sponsor her as KM?
AlexPi said:
Hello HungVu. First, my update. We had a hearing in IND and they again rejected our application. I need to admit that the lawyer plays with this situation to his profit, not to ours. My advice, do not trust lawyers ;)
