Forums » Netherlands » Housing in the Netherlands

• Apple78

  

  • 7 posts
   

  February 16, 2012 8:04:06 PM CET

  Hi

   

  I have an apartment in amsterdam i desperately need to sell but my makelaar is telling me there is no proof of the state of my foundations therefore it is virtually impossible to sell my apt.

   

  I am confused. When i bought the apartment (2005) i guess this check was done and the foundations were fine? I am being told an investigation to check the foundations costs 1500 euro minimum which the association of owners has no interest in paying for since they dont want to sell their places.

   

  Is there anyway i can find out the state of my foundations without paying for the investigation? Or any advice on how to sell without this info?

   

  Thanks so much

• summer

  

  • 5 posts
   

  February 16, 2012 9:31:47 PM CET

  Your markelaar is not telling you the truth. You do not need foundations report to sell - it is not an absolute must.
  
  If you check current listings on funda.nl, a lot of houses available for sale do not have foundation reports. It is up to the buyers to do the checks if he has doubts or wants to get an all-clear.
  
  Sellers are not keen to carry out the checks themselves because if issues are found, they need to disclose to the buyers and/or fix it before a sale is possible. Why open a can of worms unless there are already visible signs of 'movements' such as cracks on the walls, doors/ windows cannot be closed, building is tilted, etc.
  
  Usually what you see on the selling information pack about foundations are either i) foundation problem but fixed; or ii) nothing negative about foundations - owner not aware of any problems; or iii) information per the gemeenten database - see attached link on Amsterdam Zuid as an example. (perhaps you can check whether your gemeente has similar information on your house)
  http://www.zuid.amsterdam.nl/wonen_en/bouwen/funderingen_in/
  
  However, given the current state of the markets, with a foundation report, it does clear any concerns buyers may have and faciliate the sell. But I would suggest not to go ahead with the check as the benefits are not compelling.
  
  Also, look for another makelaar as they are not telling you the truth about market practice. You can also speak to another makelaar to get a second opinion. Goodluck!
• Apple78

  

  • 7 posts
   

  July 3, 2012 6:51:39 PM CEST

  Hi Summer Thanks so much for your reply. My situation has since moved on. The bank now wants to auction my house as i can no longer pay the mortgage. The bank doesn't care that the house will sell for a lot less than i paid because i have NHG.

   

  But what happens when NHG tries to get the money they lost from me? I no longer live in NL so will they start proceedings to find me in the UK? Will it affect my UK credit? Will i never be able to visit NL again or is there some way i can resolve the situation without hiding. I don't want to hide - i want to do right by everyone but its unlikely i would ever be able to repay the difference in money - that could be 100k euro! But i feel totally panicked that i could be seen or marked as a criminal in all other countries i may travel to or live in. I can't be the only person going through this.

   

  Do you have any idea what happens to people after NHG steps in?

   

  Thanks

• quest

  

  • 934 posts
   

  July 6, 2012 1:00:26 PM CEST

  I really feel for you in this predicament. It sounds like you really tried to do what you could but they made it impossible. A real Kafkaesque situation, as so some many are here in Holland.

  I have a neighbour going through this now. He is not as far along in the process yet though, so I can't really tell you about what happens after the NHG steps in. I will be sure to give you an update when I find out.

  I found this on the Nationale Hypotheek Garantie (NHG) website. Here is a rough translation of the most important part about "Kwijtschelding van uw restschuld" (Remission of your outstanding debt):

  If the proceeds are insufficient to repay your entire mortgage, you have an outstanding debt. Your lender must submit a loss declaration to the National Mortgage Guarantee. This determines whether you qualify for cancellation of your outstanding debt. National Mortgage Guarantee informs you of this per post.

  What I am understanding is that you need to make sure that your mortgage lender subumits a "verliesdeclaratie" to the NHG.

  Here is the link to the Bureau Krediet Registratie (BKR):

  They say that you can you can retrieve your BKR data from abroad. This is a separate procedure. For more information about this procedure please contact us. We are on weekdays between 8.30 and 17.00 on +31 (0) 900-2578435 or info@bkr.nl.
  

  If you have not already done so, you may want to contact an organisation like EigenHuis.
  

  
  

  Good luck.
  

   

  
  This post was edited by quest at July 6, 2012 1:04:11 PM CEST
• ted_maul69

  

  • 2 posts
   

  November 26, 2012 2:31:15 PM CET

  Apple78 said:
  

  Hi Summer Thanks so much for your reply. My situation has since moved on. The bank now wants to auction my house as i can no longer pay the mortgage. The bank doesn't care that the house will sell for a lot less than i paid because i have NHG.

   

  But what happens when NHG tries to get the money they lost from me? I no longer live in NL so will they start proceedings to find me in the UK? Will it affect my UK credit? Will i never be able to visit NL again or is there some way i can resolve the situation without hiding. I don't want to hide - i want to do right by everyone but its unlikely i would ever be able to repay the difference in money - that could be 100k euro! But i feel totally panicked that i could be seen or marked as a criminal in all other countries i may travel to or live in. I can't be the only person going through this.

   

  Do you have any idea what happens to people after NHG steps in?

   

  Thanks

  
  Hi there,

   

  Curious as to whether you know much more from your last posting? Did the apartment auction successfully? Do you still have outstanding debt?? We are going through something similar, although not at the point where all our savings are spent just to cover the mortgage. I am out of work myself, and cannot see anything suitable coming up any time soon. We are contemplating moving back to the UK also, but are stumped as to what the process is to get the house auctioned, as renting/selling seems impossible right now. Is one allowed to return to the Netherlands with no penalty? Any advice would be appreciated, if you know any more than you did back when you posted last. Horrible situation!!!

• Apple78

  

  • 7 posts
   

  November 28, 2012 12:04:22 AM CET

  Hi Ted
  
  Since my last posting the bank isn't foreclosing....yet! I spoke to NHG and they told me if the house goes to auction i would be liable for the full debt. If i sell the house myself, as long as it is for a reasonable price even still at a loss, then i may not be liable if i can 'prove' that i am out of work or cannot pay for reasons beyond my control. They won't tell me how i must prove this though. The debt is tax deductible for the next 10 years but since i no longer earn in NL that wouldn't be any help. If NHG considers me culpable they will come after me and i was informed by a specialist in debt restructure that they can enforce the debt in the UK. As for what would happen to us if we ever set foot in NL again, i am not sure but i wouldn't like our chances of being able to pass freely through border customs! My apt is still on the market at less than i owe. Still not sold. That's where i stand for now. It's awful indeed and i feel for you guys too. Lets keep in touch and see if either of us finds any further info to help.
• vrrrespa

  

  • 106 posts
   

  December 4, 2012 12:59:29 PM CET

  Hi Apple
  Girl friend of mine is looking for a temporary accomodation , maybe you are willing to rent it out?
• ted_maul69

  

  • 2 posts
   

  February 8, 2013 11:00:08 AM CET

  Apple78 said:
  Hi Ted Since my last posting the bank isn't foreclosing....yet! I spoke to NHG and they told me if the house goes to auction i would be liable for the full debt. If i sell the house myself, as long as it is for a reasonable price even still at a loss, then i may not be liable if i can 'prove' that i am out of work or cannot pay for reasons beyond my control. They won't tell me how i must prove this though. The debt is tax deductible for the next 10 years but since i no longer earn in NL that wouldn't be any help. If NHG considers me culpable they will come after me and i was informed by a specialist in debt restructure that they can enforce the debt in the UK. As for what would happen to us if we ever set foot in NL again, i am not sure but i wouldn't like our chances of being able to pass freely through border customs! My apt is still on the market at less than i owe. Still not sold. That's where i stand for now. It's awful indeed and i feel for you guys too. Lets keep in touch and see if either of us finds any further info to help.

   

   

  Hi Apple!

  Hope you're doing okay since we last messaged each other. I am curious to one aspect of your situation, if you wouldn't mind answering a couple more questions! :o)

   

  We are currently in our house in NL, but soon will have no money left to pay the mortgage bills. I have been out of work recently with no luck in finding any other job, and my partner has also just been made unemployed. My uitkering has ran out, so currently we have around 3 months left of mortgage payments until we are totally broke :(

   

  I understand you are already in the UK, so how did that work? Did you just pack up everything and leave, and put the house on the market - or what steps did you take? I've also just found out I am pregnant, so that is an added reason to moe back to the UK closer to friends/family and be able to find a job. We are thinking of putting the house on the market, and leaving, but not sure what will happen :/ Any advice welcomed!!

• Apple78

  

  • 7 posts
   

  February 8, 2013 7:07:14 PM CET

  Hi Ted,

   

  Sorry to hear your situation hasn't improved but congrats on the baby! Anyway, let me try to answer your question.

   

  So, initially when i left NL it was for a job elsewhere. But when that contract ended i returned home to the UK. I had a couple of friends i could trust and i let them stay in my apartment at a very low rent (which no where near covered my mortgage) on the understanding that they knew it was for sale, looked after the place and co-operated with the makelaars. Which they have done for me. In the meantime my mortgage was in arrears and growing but the bank said they would not foreclose as long as i was paying something towards my mortgage. You mentioned you only have money for 3 more months mortgage payments, i would cut yourself some slack if you can by only making half payments and at least then you have 6 months! I told the bank i had no job and was doing all i could to sell the apt. They were very patient with me and even helped me a little by getting me a good makelaar and also talking to NHG for me.

   

  The bank found out i had people in the apt paying 'rent' which is totally not allowed. They told me now they knew it they could foreclose on me. I told them that that i was giving all the money i received from my friends to the bank and the bank agreed not to take action against me/ foreclose. 

   

  The thing is, if you leave, i would get someone in your place you can trust. The banks are very very nervous about squatters and people who move in a grow weed. Depending on what your house is worth you may be eligible to place your apt with an official rental agency however there's still a lot of horror stories even with agencies in charge. I think that trusted friends is a better way to go even if you have to take less rent than your mortgage.

   

  Well, my house sold last week. For WAY less than i owe. I just couldn't continue down the road i was on forever and decided it was better to cut the losses and deal with the consequences. Currently i am waiting to find out what those consequences will be.

   

  Hope this helps,

   

   

• quest

  

  • 934 posts
   

  February 8, 2013 7:47:33 PM CET

  I feel for you both, and all that may be in this situation. Sounds like you went about it in a good way Apple78. I know when I got behind on the mortgage a few years ago, the Rabobank also cut some slack as long as I showed a contiinued plan to pay. It definitely shows good will, and is worth exploring for Ted.
• vrrrespa

  

  • 106 posts
   

  February 8, 2013 8:02:36 PM CET

  it is possible to rent out your appartment when it's for sale with permission of the bank as long as you use a "leegstandswet vergunning" . That way you can reduce the cost and win some time...
• quest

  

  • 934 posts
   

  February 8, 2013 8:22:25 PM CET

  It looks like the maximum you can do with the "leegstandswet vergunning" is based on the point system, and the max. is 250 points = 1222,67 for a free-standing house. Still, whatever you can get is better than nothing, especially for expats that may be moving on to other places. Personally, if confronted with this I would trust renting to the expat community before I would trust to renting to the locals who will use every law they can against you.