Hi all. I'm a non-eu sitizen being hired here on a KM visa. Soon my wife will join me here. My question is will she have the right to work here and do we need to apply for a work permit or she can work without one and only residence permit need to be obtained? Tried to ask IND but as I read in other posts, it can be confusing: first I called they said we need to apply for WP, second time called again to probe them and they said no WP required?! Thanks.
Yes, it is confusing. The thing is ... people have the right to stay here and work ... based on their ''sponsorship''. There are different kinds of permits to stay here.
For you as a KM worker ... your company is your sponsor. For your wife - as the wife of a KM worker - she needs to have you apply for a Residence Permit for her as you are her sponsor. There are no big requirements for such since you are a KM worker so it will clear just fine. But this is what you need to do - apply to get your wife a Residence Permit based on being a KM person's wife.
It takes about 5 weeks for it to clear (just depends) and when she receives this sort of Residence Permit .. it also allows her to work here because it doubles as a Working Permit. So have no fear ... once she receives this permit she will have the right work here.
Now (the other shoe drops). 
The deal is ..if she does not speak fluent Dutch .. she will have a very difficult time indeed finding someone to hire her. Now .. I am putting this LIGHTLY. It has always been difficult ... but in this current economy .. it is worse. That is the thing - so you should set your expectations.
Nooooooo. Those people are HIGH! Hee hee!
The confusion is if you are a Dutch person and you are sponsoring your Non EU wife - THAT's when you have to apply for Residence permit/Work permit (still) for your wife and it costs about 1250.
Be aware that the IND number you call is NOT a helpdesk. (Almost by definiton the IND is not there to Help you.)They will try to help you but they often give bad information because they are not trained. They are not a Helpdesk.
Contact these people for free help:
Expatcenter Amsterdam
World Trade Center Amsterdam
Strawinskylaan 39 (second floor)
1077 XW Amsterdam
+31 (0)20 254 79 99,
+31 (0)20 254 79 99
www.iamsterdam.com/en/living/expatcenter
nrose said:
I somehow got the impression that kennismigrant partners doesn't need a work permit and only a residence permit with free-to-work stamp. Is it my misunderstanding or IND? Soo, confusing and tedious. After all, what should we apply for: a work permit and pay 1250e or residence permit with free-to-work stamp that only cost 40e? Please help, I'm so frustrated :)
You know what? I thought the same as you thought.
I strongly advise that you wait for a qualified lawyer to give you a definite answer to this question (they post here as avacado or Christian Barth) rather than take the opinion of any NON-LEGAL respondent. Taking the word of a forum stranger might just cost you a lot of unnecesary money, no matter how well-intentioned they are.
Alternatively, ask your question in the 'Ask the Expert' part of Expatica, or contact a free legal advice shop like www.hetjl.nl (you might find the answer on their website - use google translate or Bing or similar if you don't speak Dutch). They are there to help the public and so will usually respond in English.
Finally - as a non-native, you are probably going to need to call on legal services at some point while here - especially for the time while you aren't fluent in Dutch - and so I thoroughly recommend that you consider taking Rechtsbijstandverzekering (in English, Legal Assistance Insurance). It's not expensive, just a few euros each month on top of your home contents insurance, and you can compare difference policies on a price comparison website like www.independer.nl
nrose said:
Hi ouloveit3, Perhaps I get it wrong also. Do you know by chance how much does it cost for a kennismigrant wife to get a residence permit with free-to-work stamp. Thanks a lot.
I don't know the cost but I have several KM friends that have sponsored their wives for a Residence permit that also allows them to work and ... I believe the cost is nominal.
One of the wives had skills that were transferable to another field and she got a good job (International company with English as the Business Language) and the other 3 have not found jobs yet.
Do contact that Expat center because they mainly help KM workers get established. 
nrose said:
Hi, I've contacted the IND but they told me my wife need to apply for a work permit if she wants to work, that cost 1250e. I somehow got the impression that kennismigrant partners doesn't need a work permit and only a residence permit with free-to-work stamp. Is it my misunderstanding or IND? Soo, confusing and tedious. After all, what should we apply for: a work permit and pay 1250e or residence permit with free-to-work stamp that only cost 40e? Please help, I'm so frustrated :)
Part of the confusion here is that actually, there is no such thing as a 'work permit' in Dutch law. There is a permit called a tewerkstellingsvergunning (TWV for short) that a lot of people translate into English as 'work permit' (including official agencies, which makes it even more confusing), but the literal translation of that is 'employment permit'. In other words, it's the employer's responsibility, when hiring a migrant, to make sure that the employer has an employment permit (or otherwise that the migrant is free to work), or else the employer will be fined 8000 euros. The migrant cannot apply for a TWV.
That said, the kennismigrant program (or 'highly skilled migrant' program, another translation that I disagree with, since it's really the 'highly paid migrant' program) makes it easier for an employer to bring in a migrant without the arduous procedure of getting a TWV-- they just have to prove that they are paying the migrant a certain salary, and the migrant gets a residence permit (i.e., visa, and note that your first concern is always getting a residence permit, i.e., a permit to actually be in the Netherlands for more than 3 months without getting deported!) that also shows they are legal to work at that qualifying employer.
One of the other benefits that goes with the kennismigrant program is that the spouse or partner of the migrant gets a residence permit that says that they are free to work. So, to make a long story short, OP, no matter what, if your wife applies for a residence permit as your spouse, she will be free to work.
However, the bad news is: if she did not come at the same time as you, she will have to pay 1250 euros for it. (And it is the national sport on this forum to not say what your nationality is and talk in vague terms of 'non-EU', but it does make a difference: if she has the nationality of any non-EU country other than AUS/CAN/NZ/JP/KR/USA, then she has to get an MVV first, i.e., a special entry visa. The one advantage that you get if you are a kennismigrant is that your employer can apply for accelerated processing of this visa and it can be issued in 2 weeks. In that case, your employer has to pay the fee, because it is automatically deducted from their bank account. Otherwise, if you and she were to apply for it yourselves, it would take about 3 months.)
The only 'discount' that is available is if your wife comes at the same time as you and applies for a residence permit at the same time: then the fee is only 250 euros. But if she is coming after you, there's no way around paying 1250 euros.
Jeremy Bierbach, LLM
www.immigrate.nl
nrose said:
Hi ouloveit3, Perhaps I get it wrong also. Do you know by chance how much does it cost for a kennismigrant wife to get a residence permit with free-to-work stamp. Thanks a lot.
If the applicant wife needs an MVV and is applying at the same time with the kennismigrant, the IND filing fee is 250 euros for the MVV. If the applicant wife is applying after the kennismigrant (so IND has to open the file a second time), then the fee is 1250 euros for the MVV. The VVR (residence permit issued after MVV) is 300 euros in either case.
If the applicant wife doesn't need an MVV, then the VVR is 250 euros for applications filed with the kennismigrant and 1250 euros for applications filed subsequent to the kennismigrant's application.
Christian Barth, Attorney
nrose said:
Hi, Thanks all for the replies. We are actually from Romania, although I wrote non-EU country because we don't have the right to work. So, half-EU, half-non-EU :). Does it make any difference in that case? Thanks.
Actually, that does make a big difference. You shouldn't think of yourselves as non-EU. Romanians and Bulgarians are full-fledged EU citizens, but with their wings only clipped as to the automatic right to work. However, since you have been admitted to the labor market in the Netherlands (via the kennismigrant procedure), all your wife has to do is file an application for review against EU law (€40) for stay as the family member of an EU citizen. Since you have the right to work as a kennismigrant, she derives a right to work freely from you, and it will say so on the residence card she gets.
(And note-- after you have held your residence permit as a kennismigrant for 1 year, you can also apply for a review against EU law and get a residence card that says you are allowed to work freely.)
avocado said:
nrose said:
Hi, Thanks all for the replies. We are actually from Romania, although I wrote non-EU country because we don't have the right to work. So, half-EU, half-non-EU :). Does it make any difference in that case? Thanks.Actually, that does make a big difference. You shouldn't think of yourselves as non-EU. Romanians and Bulgarians are full-fledged EU citizens, but with their wings only clipped as to the automatic right to work. However, since you have been admitted to the labor market in the Netherlands (via the kennismigrant procedure), all your wife has to do is file an application for review against EU law (€40) for stay as the family member of an EU citizen. Since you have the right to work as a kennismigrant, she derives a right to work freely from you, and it will say so on the residence card she gets.
(And note-- after you have held your residence permit as a kennismigrant for 1 year, you can also apply for a review against EU law and get a residence card that says you are allowed to work freely.)
Sooo what the difference between what has already been said ... and what you are now saying?
You are making a 'distinction' that makes no 'dfference'. 
The OP is specifically interested in his Non Eu status in terms of KM work and sponsering his wife. That is the issue.
So .. in this case .. that is - the case at hand - hee hee! Geting his wife to move/work here ... being a Non EU person for a Romanian is exactly the same as being a Non Eu person from America or NZ etc. 
Because as a KM person he has to sponsor his wife ... fill out the application ... in order for his wife to live and work here. Duh.
ouloveit3 said:
avocado said:
nrose said:
Hi, Thanks all for the replies. We are actually from Romania, although I wrote non-EU country because we don't have the right to work. So, half-EU, half-non-EU :). Does it make any difference in that case? Thanks.Actually, that does make a big difference. You shouldn't think of yourselves as non-EU. Romanians and Bulgarians are full-fledged EU citizens, but with their wings only clipped as to the automatic right to work. However, since you have been admitted to the labor market in the Netherlands (via the kennismigrant procedure), all your wife has to do is file an application for review against EU law (€40) for stay as the family member of an EU citizen. Since you have the right to work as a kennismigrant, she derives a right to work freely from you, and it will say so on the residence card she gets.
(And note-- after you have held your residence permit as a kennismigrant for 1 year, you can also apply for a review against EU law and get a residence card that says you are allowed to work freely.)
Sooo what the difference between what has already been said ... and what you are now saying?
You are making a 'distinction' that makes no 'dfference'.
The OP is specifically interested in his Non Eu status in terms of KM work and sponsering his wife. That is the issue.
So .. in this case .. that is - the case at hand - hee hee! Geting his wife to move/work here ... being a Non EU person for a Romanian is exactly the same as being a Non Eu person from America or NZ etc.
Because as a KM person he has to sponsor his wife ... fill out the application ... in order for his wife to live and work here. Duh.
I think you are tripping over your own train of thought, ouloveit. Or I think you missed the news that Romania became a member of the EU on January 1, 2007.
The OP is an EU citizen. (The OP calling himself 'non-EU' is incorrect and a dead end.) Romanians and Bulgarians are only limited when it comes to work, so in that way, yes, the OP had to be treated something like a non-EU citizen when it came to being allowed to work, i.e. he had to have his employer sponsor him. However, now that he has been admitted to the labor market of the Netherlands (i.e. his value to the Netherlands has been proven), he will be treated more like other EU citizens. That means that his wife (regardless of whether she is an EU citizen or a non-EU citizen herself) can apply for residence based on EU law, and she will get the right to work freely, because she is the dependent of an EU citizen who is working. You have to just trust me on this one. This is not a problem that can be solved based on common sense. You really do have to understand the way EU law works and the way the Accession Treaties for Romania and Bulgaria work (which describe the terms of the limitations that can be placed on Romanians and Bulgarians working).
But really: Don't you have better things to do than hate on me, ouloveit? This is starting to look a bit sad.
ouloveit3 said:
Nooooooo. Those people are HIGH! Hee hee!
The confusion is if you are a Dutch person and you are sponsoring your Non EU wife - THAT's when you have to apply for Residence permit/Work permit (still) for your wife and it costs about 1250.
Be aware that the IND number you call is NOT a helpdesk. (Almost by definiton the IND is not there to Help you.)They will try to help you but they often give bad information because they are not trained. They are not a Helpdesk.
Contact these people for free help:
Expatcenter Amsterdam
World Trade Center Amsterdam
Strawinskylaan 39 (second floor)
1077 XW Amsterdam
+31 (0)20 254 79 99,
+31 (0)20 254 79 99
www.iamsterdam.com/en/living/expatcenter
The people at the Expatcenter in Amsterdam are IND employees just like the people who answer the 0900-1234561 information line. There is no difference. The KM expatcenters are just regular IND offices which also accomodate immediate GBA registration as a convenience for KM workers and their employers. There is no difference in the quality of advice being rendered because no one at the IND is supposed to be giving advice to 'clients' (as they like to call the rest of us). They are there to enforce the immigration laws as directed by the Ministry of Justice. Do you call the police and ask for advice on criminal law?
Christian Barth, Attorney
ouloveit3 said:
Once again you are splitting hairs. I think we all know Romania is actually right down the street ... so is technically ... it IS the EU. The point here is that the OP's country has such limited membership in the EU that he has to get a KM permit .., just as if he were a Non EU person. So that is why he used that term. So whether he had called himself Romanian with limited EU privedges or he had called himself Non EU .. he would have received the exact same answer. His wife would still have had to be sponsored by him.
Romania is not 'technically' in the EU, it has full membership subject to a transitional period regarding the right to work. Avocado is not splitting hairs, as usual his analysis is right on the mark.
Christian Barth, Attorney
ouloveit3 said:
. So whether he had called himself Romanian with limited EU privedges or he had called himself Non EU .. he would have received the exact same answer. His wife would still have had to be sponsored by him.
I don't think any of us is disputing that she has to be sponsored by him. But the answer is very, very different in the former case and in the latter case. In the former case, her application costs €40. In the latter case, her application costs €1250.
christianbarth said:
ouloveit3 said:
Once again you are splitting hairs. I think we all know Romania is actually right down the street ... so is technically ... it IS the EU. The point here is that the OP's country has such limited membership in the EU that he has to get a KM permit .., just as if he were a Non EU person. So that is why he used that term. So whether he had called himself Romanian with limited EU privedges or he had called himself Non EU .. he would have received the exact same answer. His wife would still have had to be sponsored by him.
Romania is not 'technically' in the EU, it has full membership subject to a transitional period regarding the right to work. Avocado is not splitting hairs, as usual his analysis is right on the mark.
Christian Barth, Attorney
Umm neither yourself nor Avocado are always on the mark and you know it.
Hey, you were the one that recently tried to tell me that my company's lawyer was the one that got my Residence Permit back in 2000. But then I had to explain that I personally had to go down to the Alien's Police and submit papers for my own Residence Permit. I managed it.
This was the procedure in 2000 for anyone that came here on a Working Permit. That's why I asked if you were even here in The NL back then ... because your information was blatently .. incorrect.
From you umm ... no response.
avocado said:
ouloveit3 said:
. So whether he had called himself Romanian with limited EU privedges or he had called himself Non EU .. he would have received the exact same answer. His wife would still have had to be sponsored by him.I don't think any of us is disputing that she has to be sponsored by him. But the answer is very, very different in the former case and in the latter case. In the former case, her application costs €40. In the latter case, her application costs €1250.
(shrugs) Okay.
christianbarth said:
ouloveit3 said:
Nooooooo. Those people are HIGH! Hee hee!
The confusion is if you are a Dutch person and you are sponsoring your Non EU wife - THAT's when you have to apply for Residence permit/Work permit (still) for your wife and it costs about 1250.
Be aware that the IND number you call is NOT a helpdesk. (Almost by definiton the IND is not there to Help you.)They will try to help you but they often give bad information because they are not trained. They are not a Helpdesk.
Contact these people for free help:
Expatcenter Amsterdam
World Trade Center Amsterdam
Strawinskylaan 39 (second floor)
1077 XW Amsterdam
+31 (0)20 254 79 99,
+31 (0)20 254 79 99
www.iamsterdam.com/en/living/expatcenter
The people at the Expatcenter in Amsterdam are IND employees just like the people who answer the 0900-1234561 information line. There is no difference. The KM expatcenters are just regular IND offices which also accomodate immediate GBA registration as a convenience for KM workers and their employers. There is no difference in the quality of advice being rendered because no one at the IND is supposed to be giving advice to 'clients' (as they like to call the rest of us). They are there to enforce the immigration laws as directed by the Ministry of Justice. Do you call the police and ask for advice on criminal law?
Christian Barth, Attorney
Okay, okay Christian .. we get it.
Hee hee .. nooooobody is qualified to offer advice unless .. they hire someone like yourself. Hee Hee!
All these other places are completely ... useless right? Hee hee!
Once again .. I have never known an expat (including myself) that came here for work that had to hire a lawyer to get their papers. ( ... unless something was unusal about their situation.)
Hi all, Just to make things clear (and try to put an end to the bitter agrument here :)).
We went to IND today:
1. KM spouse has the right to work derived from her/his partner KM status.
2. Citizens from Romania & Bulgaria pay for residence permit for spouse 40euro (no matter work-free or not, the former is related to KM status).
3. So, a Romanian or Bulgarian KM's wife/husband has the right to work and her/his residence permit should state that.
4. The fee for "arbeid vrij toegestaan" residence permit for Bulgarian & Romanian KM's spouse is 40euro. NOT 1250euro, this is for non-EU (proper non-EU countries :)).
Hope this will be useful to know for other ppl in my situation.
Best regards and thank you all for your help.
