Once the burqa ban passed by the Dutch conservative coalition on Friday is approved by parliament, police will be obliged to enforce it, Security and Justice Minister Yvo Opstelten stresses.
“The minister expects police to enforce the ban in accordance with the law”, Mr Opstelten’s spokesperson emphasised. The statement comes in response to criticism voiced by the National Police Union and the central works council of the national police force that is currently being set up.
The chair of the police works council, Frank Giltay, had said there is no need for a burqa ban, which, he added, is unlikely to have any practical benefits. Burqas, he underlined, do not pose a threat to public security. He criticised the ban as a “symbolic policy”.
Green Left leader Jolande Sap also denounced the intended ban as a symbolic policy. Speaking on radio on Saturday morning, Ms Sap argued that women’s emancipation required different measures, such as education and language courses.
She also slammed the cabinet for going to such lengths to make the burqa ban acceptable by allowing a raft of exceptions, such as wearing balaclavas in winter or donning masks and veils during carnival. “Maybe I’ll wear a burqa for carnival,” the MP joked.
The coalition of the conservative VVD and Christian Democrats had previously agreed with Geert Wilders’ anti-Islam Freedom Party, which backs the minority cabinet on an agreed package of policies, to institute the burqa ban this term.
The cabinet adopted the ban on Friday despite grave reservations expressed by the Council of State, the government’s top advisory body and the country’s highest court, regarding its legality and feasibility.
pepec said:
All decisions by this government are either cancelled, reversed, delayed, or outlawed. Their only success was throwing a baby orca out of the country to Spain. In every poll they are losing more and more support. This ban will probably pass parliament, but it will be stopped in Senate.
What is ur personel opinion? do u support ban?
blackwater said:
What is ur personel opinion? do u support ban?
Ugh, this has always been a nasty dilemma that has always divided my own very personal opinion.
1) I do not like the government telling me, as a woman, what I may or may not wear. I feel it oppressively: I feel someone telling me I MUST NOT wear something equally as bad as someone telling me I MUST wear something. If they ban the burqa - and then the illiterate PVV realise that means only a full-face covering, and so the hijab doesnt count, thus they start to crusade against something else - I would, as an agnostic/atheist - start to wear a hijab just to support my friends who do wear one. As a woman who dislikes the chill/feeling of rain or hailstone in her hair, I often pull my scarf over my head for protection anyway, but how long before some man wishes to ban that? Or ban me wearing a skirt? Or a hat? Or ban me from wearing a swimming costum or bikini at the beach?
However - and I'm sorry -more importantly
2) I dislike the burka. I grew up in an age and a location where the Provisional IRA (terrorists, or 'freedom fighters' according to taste: murderers/bomb planters, according to my memory) were synonymous with balaclavas. People who hide their eyes, in Western Culture, in every ounce of my instinct, are hiding their identity for malintent. I don't think those women who either choose (yes, some do choose - either out of low self-esteem, or some anti-establishment rebelliousness) or are requested or forced by males to wear it, quite understand how wrong this just 'feels' to us natives of the West. Research has proven that a baby seeks certain points on a face for recognition; a burka or balaclava, or a full motorcycle helmet (all of which are banned under this law - not just the muslim burka!!) deprives us of this recognition. Eye contact is very important here in all aspects of communication; we say the eyes are the windows to the soul.
This ban affects just a hundred or so women in the Netherlands. I've seen just 1 in my whole time in Amsterdam. A burka is, here, the opposite of muslimteaching as it is very immodest - it draws attention to oneself, rather than makes one blend in with the crowd. A hijab, on the other hand, is quite normaal (look it up if you can't tell the different between burka/niqab/hijab/etc) because the whole face is visible.
osita said:
(I wish someone would stick a full head covering over his glowing locks!)
He is a natural blonde though.
Ugh, this has always been a nasty dilemma that has always divided my own very personal opinion.....
I totally agree with you Osita, for the same reasons. I find it a bit funny that a bunch of men in the government are so afraid of 100 women who wear burka's. Maybe they should put them to good use if they are so scary, and hire them to intimidate Dutch football hooligans and the like. I've been here 15+ years, and have only seen them at Schiphol.
There are also lots of people I would be happy to see cover there face/clothes, so what's going to be next... Personally, I would like to see women with that red/purple dyed hair banned, because they are usually the ones who block the isles in supermarkets and talk with horibble screachy loud voices on their mobiles, while their kids run amok everywhere. Shall we start a petition?
peony said:
I think that this law was brought by western discomfort at seeing burka rather than "noble" wish to stop some muslim woman to be opressed at home (and I don't think that wearing burka equals opression).
Mr fook said:
I agree.
IMO.its a bit much ado about nothing.
I live in the most muslim populated area of Amsterdam and Ive seen one maybe 4 times in 8 years.
I don't mind what anyone wears.
I find some 'fashionable' clothes much more offensive. :)
blackwater said:
do u want Netherland to be like this http://doodiepants.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Burka-ID.jpg Can police confirm they are same as ID????
peony said:
blackwater said:
do u want Netherland to be like this http://doodiepants.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Burka-ID.jpg Can police confirm they are same as ID????
Actually they can - on the passport photos you can clearly see their face. And thats beside the point, passport photos in the Netherlands have very strict guidelines.
If a lady come up like that, Will she show her face to a male police officer for identification ?
Obviously not. So you have to call female officer .What will be the waste of time of police resources and money of Tax payers...
If you dont restrict them now today, then by tom they will demand seprate Shariah law may be in 50 years seprate islamic republic http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0706-world-burqa/8267884-1-eng-US/0706-world-burqa_full_600.jpg
Rubbish....complete and utter.
blackwater said:
If you dont restrict them now today, then by tom they will demand seprate Shariah law may be in 50 years seprate islamic republic
You obviously don't have the intellect to figure stuff out for yourself. Shariah law will not happen in the West, and especially never in the Netherlands where nobody's about to roll over and give up their equality. Those women in France know it won't happen there either - perhaps they think it will bring them closer to their god by 'crusading'. After all, Europe taught the Muslims all about 'crusading' almost a thousand years ago.
Remember too that the overwhelming majority of those peole most willing to use aggression to force a religion upon us are unlikely to have the education to come here on a Highly Skilled Migrant visa. The rest do not have the right to live and work here. No more than a handfull, in real terms, will come here as asylum seekers. Hence, Islam will remain, as it has done, a minority religion here.
Oh no - that means we've been exposed to Islam all that time and still no Shariah law here? doh! guess it will never happen here then (even without the delinquent scaremongering public rags/newspapers trying to do their worst).
blackwater said:If you dont restrict them now today, then by tom they will demand seprate Shariah law may be in 50 years seprate islamic republic
peony said:
Maybe all women should be "frisked" by guys in the future?
bw is probably a security guard :)
Or would like to be - but he couldn't pass the test :)
What about drunk and disorderly Dutch men who won't listen to female police officers and they have to call in a male officer? That is also a waste of time of police resources and money of tax payers. Does that mean alcohol should be banned?
blackwater said:
If a lady come up like that, Will she show her face to a male police officer for identification ?
Obviously not. So you have to call female officer .What will be the waste of time of police resources and money of Tax payers...
quest said:
What about drunk and disorderly Dutch men who won't listen to female police officers and they have to call in a male officer? That is also a waste of time of police resources and money of tax payers. Does that mean alcohol should be banned?
What about drunk and disorderly dutch women who won't listen to male officers?
Mind you there are probably more drunk and disorderly english women...... :)
I think you are missing my point mrfook. I was replying to what blackwater said about causing a waste of time of police resources and money of tax payers due to opposite gender issues.
mrfook said:
What about drunk and disorderly dutch women who won't listen to male officers?Mind you there are probably more drunk and disorderly english women...... :)
This law is going to be completely unenforceable, so a complete waste of tax payers money.
How can they prove that someone is wearing a face covering for health or safety reasons? If it is cold, it is not uncommon to wear a hat and scarf wrapped around the face. If someone has concerns of germs and wears a face mask, how are they going to prove that it is not justified? If someone wants to wear a burka and harden it up a bit they could easily say it is used for safety. How can they fairly not apply the ban for events like Sinterklaas, Carnival and Halloween, which all have a religious basis, and not for all religious based events? For some, their daily life is a religious based event.
If nothing else, I think it will be entertaining to see what people come up with to get around this ban.
Doesn’t this government have better things to do than waste our money on something that will clearly not pass scrutiny in any reasonable court of law?
Government approves ban on clothing that covers the face
News item | 30-01-2012
The government has reaffirmed the decision to introduce a general ban on wearing clothing that covers the face in public. It believes that people need to be able to look each other in the eye and interact with recognisable faces. Open communication is vital in public places. Wearing clothing that covers the face is not appropriate in an open society like the Netherlands, where participation in social intercourse is crucial.
This motivation is included in the bill introducing the ban. Minister of the Interior and Kingdom Relations Liesbeth Spies presented it to the Cabinet, which approved it on Friday. The bill is expected to be sent early next week to the House of Representatives, together with a response to the Council of State’s advisory opinion on it. By introducing the bill the government is fulfilling a pledge made in the coalition agreement.
A ban on wearing clothing that covers the face is important in ensuring a society in which everyone can participate fully. Requiring women to wear face-covering burkas or niqabs in public is incompatible with the principle of gender equality. With this bill the government is removing an obstacle to women’s social participation. The protection of social intercourse and public order in Dutch society is a legitimate reason for restricting the wearing of clothing that covers the face. The government therefore believes that the bill does not violate the European Convention on Human Rights.
The ban applies to all forms of clothing that covers the face, including balaclavas as well as burkas. The bill forbids this clothing in public spaces, public buildings, educational and healthcare institutions and public transport. Infringements of the ban will carry a fine of up to 390 euros.
The ban does not apply to face coverings that are necessary for health, safety or the practice of an occupation or sport. There are exceptions to the ban for events such as Sinterklaas, Carnival and Halloween, and mayors are authorised to lift the ban temporarily for a specific event. The ban does not apply to places and buildings that are intended for religious use, on aircraft, or to passengers who pass through Dutch airports in transit to their final destination.
blackwater said:
If a lady come up like that, Will she show her face to a male police officer for identification ?
Obviously not. So you have to call female officer .What will be the waste of time of police resources and money of Tax payers...
A seperate law for around 100 people wearing burkha in this country is proper utilisation of tax payers money!!!
