Good question. Probably because (judging from the undeleted spam) nobody's working this week.
canuckywoman said:
Well, since you don't know how to give a straight answer to a question, one can only guess, can't they?
canuckywoman said:
In other words, you have no straight answer. Fine. Bye.
hminkema said:
By the way, I take offense at the way in which deer are treated in the British and American Christmas tradition. In an anti-natural setting, tied with ropes or reins, often 'ornamented' with unnatural paraphernalia, with nowhere to go but forward in pairs, and disciplined with a whip if not sufficiently obedient to human demands. A cruel torment, as obviously still fashionable in some backward cultures with no respect for animal welfare. This stupid treatment is even promoted among the younger generation in cartoon movies in which the lie is told that such deer are happy with their fate and even have red noses for sheer joy and excitement. It is high time that the Brits abandoned this particular part of their Christmas traditions. Certainly some animal welfare propagandists can organize loud protests in the busy London or New York shopping streets. I am sure such protesters will meet with sympathy among the expats in this forum.
Sorry, but this made me laugh so hard because of the fact I was in Jumbo and AH just before Christmas and saw REINDEER STEAKS with a typical Santa-reindeer silohette on them as a festive, Christmas dish. I mean ffs, Reindeer steaks for Christmas dinner? How needlessly contrary!
Also I laughed at the whole notion that the Dutch are superior in animal welfare when every day I need to be grated and annoyed by people in real fur trim jackets. EVERYWHERE. It was such a relief to be back in the UK and see it clear of that. Fur farming for fashion here is a-ok morally, but we're going to argue over TALKING REINDEER? -_-
PS this thread needs to un-sticky, surely...
korrok said:Sorry, but this made me laugh so hard because of the fact I was in Jumbo and AH just before Christmas and saw REINDEER STEAKS with a typical Santa-reindeer silohette on them as a festive, Christmas dish. I mean ffs, Reindeer steaks for Christmas dinner? How needlessly contrary!
Also I laughed at the whole notion that the Dutch are superior in animal welfare when every day I need to be grated and annoyed by people in real fur trim jackets. EVERYWHERE. It was such a relief to be back in the UK and see it clear of that. Fur farming for fashion here is a-ok morally, but we're going to argue over TALKING REINDEER? -_-
PS this thread needs to un-sticky, surely...
So you personally observed that animal cruelty is the direct result of your Christmas 'Santa with reindeer' tradition, yet you refuse to abolish it?
You are SO in denial!
When will the British and Americans be finally able to see the horrific side of their abuse of reindeer als 'Santa helpers', being whipped in place as obedient slaves who are to pull that weighty snow-sled with all those presents and Santa's overweight Jerry-Springer-entitled belly into the black night? Brainwashing their children as if abusing reindeer is a means to spread happiness all over the world? And the apotheosis being that, once the presents have been received, the reindeer are carved up into large steaks and consumed on a Christmas dinner?
Talking about blackface.
I promise you: as long as the Brits and Yankees stick to and rationalize this gross animal abuse, so horrendous to the sensible Dutch animal-loving soul, the Dutch will cling on to the relatively harmless clown-like Zwarte Piet character.
hminkema said:
korrok said:Sorry, but this made me laugh so hard because of the fact I was in Jumbo and AH just before Christmas and saw REINDEER STEAKS with a typical Santa-reindeer silohette on them as a festive, Christmas dish. I mean ffs, Reindeer steaks for Christmas dinner? How needlessly contrary!
Also I laughed at the whole notion that the Dutch are superior in animal welfare when every day I need to be grated and annoyed by people in real fur trim jackets. EVERYWHERE. It was such a relief to be back in the UK and see it clear of that. Fur farming for fashion here is a-ok morally, but we're going to argue over TALKING REINDEER? -_-
PS this thread needs to un-sticky, surely...
So you personally observed that animal cruelty is the direct result of your Christmas 'Santa with reindeer' tradition, yet you refuse to abolish it?
You are SO in denial!
When will the British and Americans be finally able to see the horrific side of their abuse of reindeer als 'Santa helpers', being whipped in place as obedient slaves who are to pull that weighty snow-sled with all those presents and Santa's overweight Jerry-Springer-entitled belly into the black night? Brainwashing their children as if abusing reindeer is a means to spread happiness all over the world? And the apotheosis being that, once the presents have been received, the reindeer are carved up into large steaks and consumed on a Christmas dinner?
Talking about blackface.
I promise you: as long as the Brits and Yankees stick to and rationalize this gross animal abuse, so horrendous to the sensible Dutch animal-loving soul, the Dutch will cling on to the relatively harmless clown-like Zwarte Piet character.
Failtroll. 
hminkema said:
I have the right to consider all those ZP whiners as trolls.
You have the right to hold any indefensible opinion you wish.
Franklin said:You have the right to hold any indefensible opinion you wish.
hminkema said:
Franklin said:You have the right to hold any indefensible opinion you wish.
Of course I have. The question is whether anyone is smart enough to understand (and has the decency to go into) the serious side of my argument.
Yes, fictional, anthropomorphic reindeer should definitely hold the same rights and hold the same concern if not MORE than real people of colour. Happy? :P
Also, in my 27 years I've never seen an illustration of Santa on a Christmas card, decoration, cartoon, or whatever, with a whip. A quick Google image search on "Santa Reindeer" also fails to reveal any images to that effect. You'll need to try harder next time. ;)
Zwart Piet tradition should be abolished of course. This country has dark history of starting the slavery business. Not only that, they never apologized or compensated for their crime. That's the biggest reason why Dutch society still stand on racism. Complete non-sense, disgusting. They should change the color to Oranje Piet. Makes more sense.
What a ton of BS. For a fact did you know that there is a difference between trading slaves and making them? African people made their own people slave and had slaves them self. Their where even Dutch slaves in the North of Africa, that where bought free by the Dutch. There are tons of books written about this topic. And you will never hear the Dutch complain about once being a slave to arabs. Now about the apologize and compensating. This has been done already and is still done if you take a look at how much is spend on the Nederlandse Antillen and Suriname. I still don't get it why there is a link between Zwarte Piet and Racism. If color is such an issue, why don't we get a black Sinterklaas or Santa? Dutch society stands on racism? How is that? Because we contribute a large chunk of our money to the countries of "Zwarte Piet"? Of you will be treated differently because of your skin color? I don't care if you change Zwarte Piet into Purple Piet or Red Piet, but not because it is racist to have a Zwarte Piet. It is pretty much racist to think that because having a Zwarte Piet, that the whole Dutch society is racism.
I don't think that many of the Dutch who see no harm in "Zwarte Piet" will understand it until it is in the past. Most of the comments written by Dutch people have the same undertone as when it was socially acceptable to make fun of women, religion, sexuality etc. Let's hope that some day Dutch kids will see old films of "Zwarte Piet" and be shocked. Until then, all the rest of us can do is not tolerate, participate, or in any way make it appear socially acceptable.
