October 31, 2007 3:53:22 PM CET
I wrote a reply to this, but it got lost ... so I’ll try again.
I can appreciate your sensitivity, Billybob, but I have to disagree with you.
The Karneval in Koln predates WWl, so why should they re-jig their ancient festival to comply with a (cruelly) arbitrary date?
The individuals who accepted the German surrender at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month did so for what are (now) clearly cruel and vicious reasons.
Had they not killed enough people before the 11th of November? Did they really need to fight until that day? Who is (or was) morally responsible for all the deaths which occurred from the time a cease-fire could have been negotiated and that ‘11th hour’?
I hope they’re burning in hell!
When I was a child, the 11th of November was ‘Remembrance Day’. Everything came to a halt for two minutes at 11am. We read (in my school) the names of the dead. We stopped and we thought about them.
I knew people from WWl – I didn’t know anybody who died in WWl – (I’m not that old;) )Nor did I know anybody who died in WWll.
As a child, I ‘remembered’ – but it was a bit of ‘sceneplay’ – I ‘paid tribute’; I didn’t ‘remember.’
Americans have ‘Veteran’s Day’ on which they remember ALL veterans. IMO, they’ve got it right.
There were more than one or two Germans killed in WWl. Do you really think that the people of Cologne are unaware of that? They mourn their dead, too.
When I became an adult (yes, I’m retired military) some of my friends died in wars. On Veterans’ day (for me, ‘Remembrance day’ ) I will ‘remember’ those who died in the Great War, WWll and Korea, but I will remember my friends. I will also ‘remember’ – or think about – the soldiers who fought on ‘the other side’ during all the wars. They too were ‘brothers in arms’ and – IMO – they deserve the same respect.
We – as a Genus – haven’t come very far, have we?
500, 700 or 1000 years ago when we wanted to wage war, the King, Lords and Barons on one side faced off against the King, Lords and Barons on the other.
OK, the common soldiers were involved (and as usual, they did most of the work), but if you wanted to win a war you put your money (or rather your sword arm and your crown) where your mouth was.
Example: In the 11th Century, there was an argument between William the Bastard and Harold (Oathbreaker) about who was going to be King of England (simplified version) Bill the Bastard brought matters to a close at Battle, near Hastings (It was called something else at the time, but ‘battle’ seeme
(billybob)
I was just wondering what everyone thought about this one,
Is it distasteful for Germany (well, particularly Cologne) to be having a big party on 11th Hour/Day/Month, when so many other nations remember those who died at war on this date?
Friends and relatives who visit always tell me it's a little distasteful for Germany to be doing this at exactly that time and not a day earlier/later.
Does anyone know the history of Karneval and officially when 11:00 on 11/11 first appears in historical documents?
Karneval obviously predates any of the world wars, but I was wondering if the 11th Hour/Day/Month was something that was recently invented, or if it dates back to pagan times immemorial...
d like a good name afterwards and the name stuck.)
Harold (and most of his courtiers (Congressmen, Senators, Members of Parliament or whatever you want to call them) lost and were killed.
Nowadays, of course, the Presidents, Congressmen, Senators and whatever else send others out to do the dying.
That’s progress!
(I don’t want to get involved in weighty discussions about Iraq, but it does seem to me that the Iraqi government are a bunch of incompetents and they lack firm leadership.)
...Why doesn’t the ‘coalition’ send them a selection of highly-qualified and experienced Congressmen and a President? – That would sort out all the problems in about 5 minutes.
If there is a city in Germany which can find something to celebrate on 11 November, GO FOR IT!
The ‘Eleventh Hour of the eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month’ is hardly an inconsequential day for Germans. They have even more dead to mourn that do we.
I’ll remember veterans on Sunday. I will, in particular, remember my deceased friends. ...but I know them well and if they knew there was a Karneval in Cologne on Sunday, I know where they’d want to be.
They would be really ‘disenchanted’ with your suggestion that the party should be cancelled.
