Forums » Spain » Canadians in Spain

• feobee

  
   

  September 20, 2007 5:01:04 PM CEST

  Hi,
  
  I was wondering if someone could advice me if it was possible to have both Spanish and Canadian citizenship.
  I am marrying a Spaniard and will be moving to Murcia next April. I am learning there are a lot of things I have to get sorted out and I am getting a little overwhelmed right now.
  I have been told dual citizenship is not possible but I would like to hear experiences from people who have pursued this route.
  Also can someone clarify if a Canadian drivers is Co-validated in Spain... ie can I switch my license for and Spanish one without the test and all that other stuff.
  Also I wanted to see if there are any Canadians living around Murcia.
  Thanks
• sawyer

  
   

  September 21, 2007 11:56:15 PM CEST

  Hi there
  
  On my post prior to your there is a link to the Government of Canada website in Spain which explains a lot of this.
  
  But the answer to the question about drivers licences, the answer is no, a Canadian drivers licence cannot be exchanged for a Spanish one.
  
  No agreeemement exists between Canada and Spain to recognize each others drivers licence, you have to take a driver test in Spain. You also have to give up your Provincial licence and have it cancelled in your Province.
  
  As for dual nationality/Spanish citizenship, as I understand, no you cannot just obtain Spanish citizenship just because you marry a Spaniard as in most countries, marriage doesn't give you citizenship.
  
  And from what I understand in talking to a lawyer in Spain, marriage will not change anything about what you will need to do to live in Spain, it just might help it a bit. I think you still have to apply for a Visa from the Spanish Embassy in Canada.
  
  
  Here is the link again:
  http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/canada-europa/s pain/cis-en.asp
• polijohn

  
   

  June 3, 2008 2:11:34 PM CEST

  Although this post came along time ago since I have some first and second hand knowledge of these things here I'll give a slightly different answer to the other poster.
  
  As far as the driving license, it's true that there is no agreement (still). However, you are allowed to drive on your Canadian for the first 6 months AFTER you become a resident. The 6 month period begins only after you become a resident. (to give you time to get the new one I suppose). Then you do have to go to the Mafia-autoescuelas to take courses and lessons (regardless on whether you need them). Take the test pass it and get your new license.
  I wouldn't cancel you Canadian one or do anything about it until you have in your hands your Spanish one.
  Truth is you can get away driving with your Canadian one for a long time, because if you insure your car under your Spanish spouse's name and put yourself on as a secondary the traffic police will never really find out if you tell them you are a tourist. (I know one American who has been doing it since 1994 - admittedly not the wisest idea but still.)
  
  As far as citizenship, you may not gain Spanish citizenship on marriage, I'm not sure exactly how that works but you will be permitted to work and reside in this country at that point, which is tantamount to citizenship, as within 5 years you could then apply. My American friend is getting married early so she can begin working here as she already moved here a short while ago. And you should then be able to get Dual Citizenship, you can everywhere else in the EU and those rules often apply fairly uniformly.
  
  Maybe too late for this to help the former poster but for anyone else who stumbles across this page, there you go.
  
  P.S. Spanish bureaucracy is famous and for good reason get some advice from a lawyer here because it is interesting to navigate alone.
• debbie

  
   

  June 3, 2008 11:40:34 PM CEST

  
  

  polijohn (Jun 3 2008, 10:11 AM) said: > original post
  Although this post came along time ago since I have some first and second hand knowledge of these things here I'll give a slightly different answer to the other poster.
  
  As far as the driving license, it's true that there is no agreement (still). However, you are allowed to drive on your Canadian for the first 6 months AFTER you become a resident. The 6 month period begins only after you become a resident. (to give you time to get the new one I suppose). Then you do have to go to the Mafia-autoescuelas to take courses and lessons (regardless on whether you need them). Take the test pass it and get your new license.
  I wouldn't cancel you Canadian one or do anything about it until you have in your hands your Spanish one.
  Truth is you can get away driving with your Canadian one for a long time, because if you insure your car under your Spanish spouse's name and put yourself on as a secondary the traffic police will never really find out if you tell them you are a tourist. (I know one American who has been doing it since 1994 - admittedly not the wisest idea but still.)
  
  As far as citizenship, you may not gain Spanish citizenship on marriage, I'm not sure exactly how that works but you will be permitted to work and reside in this country at that point, which is tantamount to citizenship, as within 5 years you could then apply. My American friend is getting married early so she can begin working here as she already moved here a short while ago. And you should then be able to get Dual Citizenship, you can everywhere else in the EU and those rules often apply fairly uniformly.
  
  Maybe too late for this to help the former poster but for anyone else who stumbles across this page, there you go.
  
  P.S. Spanish bureaucracy is famous and for good reason get some advice from a lawyer here because it is interesting to navigate alone.

  
  
  
  According to Lee.
  Dual nationality in Spain, is not possible. Spanish law does not allow it!
  I couldn t agree more re: advice from a lawyer.
  Why are people moving to Spain?
  
• feobee79

  
   

  June 4, 2008 1:44:31 PM CEST

  
  

  debbie (Jun 3 2008, 07:40 PM) said: > original post
  According to Lee.
  Dual nationality in Spain, is not possible. Spanish law does not allow it!
  I couldn t agree more re: advice from a lawyer.
  Why are people moving to Spain?

  
  
  Thanks Debbie,
  
  I am in Spain now so I am sorting the mess all all this fun legal stuff. I have realize nothing is as straight forward as they say. My husband is experiencing the fun of just getting my empardronamiento, after 3 tries I finally have the document I suppose we move on to step 2 of how many.
  
  I also wanted to know if there are communities of expats living in Murcia?
  I think we move to Spain because the weather and food is better here
  
• debbie

  
   

  June 4, 2008 7:05:57 PM CEST

  
  

  feobee79 (Jun 4 2008, 09:44 AM) said: > original post
  Thanks Debbie,
  
  I am in Spain now so I am sorting the mess all all this fun legal stuff. I have realize nothing is as straight forward as they say. My husband is experiencing the fun of just getting my empardronamiento, after 3 tries I finally have the document I suppose we move on to step 2 of how many.
  
  I also wanted to know if there are communities of expats living in Murcia?
  I think we move to Spain because the weather and food is better here

  
  
  
  If only the legal stuff were fun!
  Empardronamiento, dont even go there, lol! The Catalan version, is extremely funny. Not 'ha ha' but funny 'strange'.
  Everyones circumstances differ but one thing is for sure. Any paperwork, however simple and straight forward. Is extremely difficult and labourious. Can be very costly, too!
  My friend has an equestrian centre. She s recently been told to register her animals (horses) ,to a local zoo. The list is becoming endless. Its costing her a fortune. The paperwork is slow and complicated. Apparantly, only necessary, for non Spanish nationals.
  Mmmmm, something strange going on, I think. Wouldn t be corruption, would it?
  My advice is be careful with your money. Find a Spanish Gestor ,whos spoken English is good and hope he s trustworthy.
  Good luck!
• lee8

  
   

  June 4, 2008 9:51:20 PM CEST

  
  

  debbie (Jun 3 2008, 07:40 PM) said: > original post
  Dual nationality in Spain, is not possible. Spanish law does not allow it!

  
  
  
  You forgot to inclose the link I gave you to the Spanish Lawyers site stating Spain no longer recognises dual Nationality.
  
  Just incase here is another site stating the rules, sorry guys but its for UK Nationals, Don`t know what the rules for Canadians are, Debs and I are both Brits.
  
  But it does clearly state "Spain does not recognize dual nationality for adults".
  
  http://www.ipspain.co.uk/dual_nationality.htm
• debbie

  
   

  June 5, 2008 7:57:14 PM CEST

  
  

  lee8 (Jun 4 2008, 05:51 PM) said: > original post
  You forgot to inclose the link I gave you to the Spanish Lawyers site stating Spain no longer recognises dual Nationality.
  
  Just incase here is another site stating the rules, sorry guys but its for UK Nationals, Don`t know what the rules for Canadians are, Debs and I are both Brits.
  
  But it does clearly state "Spain does not recognize dual nationality for adults".
  
  http://www.ipspain.co.uk/dual_nationality.htm

  
  
  
  I ve South African friends, yet to experience the fun and games.
  They went to queue for their NIE no's at 4.30 am, arrived back at lunch time!!!!
  Luckily ,they are both fully aware, of what is yet to come.
  Too many people are totally naive ,when they move to Spain.
  I was . . . Although ,I have learned very quickly to adapt.
  Some, are unable to do so! You need to think on your feet quickly ,or sometimes very very very slowly! You re never in control and its sooo difficult to find out who is . . .
  
• lee8

  
   

  June 5, 2008 9:52:22 PM CEST

  
  

  debbie (Jun 5 2008, 03:57 PM) said: > original post
  Too many people are totally naive ,when they move to Spain.

  
  
  
  How are the language classes goin then.
  
• feobee79

  
   

  July 4, 2008 1:57:32 PM CEST

  
  

  debbie (Jun 5 2008, 03:57 PM) said: > original post
  I ve South African friends, yet to experience the fun and games.
  They went to queue for their NIE no's at 4.30 am, arrived back at lunch time!!!!
  Luckily ,they are both fully aware, of what is yet to come.
  Too many people are totally naive ,when they move to Spain.
  I was . . . Although ,I have learned very quickly to adapt.
  Some, are unable to do so! You need to think on your feet quickly ,or sometimes very very very slowly! You re never in control and its sooo difficult to find out who is . . .

  
  
  
  I am well aware the this, my husband always tells me he knows the way Spain is and the way things works so he is insistent on asking 20 times before proceeding.
  I usually adapt quickly to new environments but I am even finding Spain a bit difficult to adjust to.
  
  I think the situation for citizenship for brits is the same as Canadians so it works out in the end.
  
  Thanks for the advice
• lee8

  
   

  July 5, 2008 5:49:29 PM CEST

  
  

  feobee79 (Jul 4 2008, 09:57 AM) said: > original post
  I usually adapt quickly to new environments but I am even finding Spain a bit difficult to adjust to.

  
  
  
  It can also depend on the location in Spain.
  My OH is Spanish and from the North, moving to the South has caused her adjustment issues.
  She feels as if she`s moved to Mexico.
  I`m still talking to others on different sites who want to move to Spain from the UK, the hardest piece of advice to express to others is that difference in Spain, even though its an EU country, it is far behind in most cultural and lifestyle attitudes.
  Simply having a 2 week vacation isn`t a good way to judge a countries suitability, which probably accounts for the large numbers of people returning to there home countries within a few years.
  
• feobee79

  
   

  July 10, 2008 1:45:41 PM CEST

  
  

  lee8 (Jul 5 2008, 01:49 PM) said: > original post
  It can also depend on the location in Spain.
  My OH is Spanish and from the North, moving to the South has caused her adjustment issues.
  She feels as if she`s moved to Mexico.
  I`m still talking to others on different sites who want to move to Spain from the UK, the hardest piece of advice to express to others is that difference in Spain, even though its an EU country, it is far behind in most cultural and lifestyle attitudes.
  Simply having a 2 week vacation isn`t a good way to judge a countries suitability, which probably accounts for the large numbers of people returning to there home countries within a few years.

  
  
  
  
  Sometimes I am shocked by the lack of infrastructure here. I travel a lot to developing countries for my work and there are times I scratch my head and wonder why are things not better built and organized in this country.
  I am absolutely appalled by the lack of urban planning and random residential blocks popping up everywhere in Murcia. How can they build there communities in the middle of now where this is not even proper urban sprawl.
  
  I think the one important thing for me is build my own network here in order to keep my sanity do you have recommendations of clubs and networks to join?
  Thanks
  
  
• lee8

  
   

  July 12, 2008 3:15:28 PM CEST

  Money is king in Spain.
  
  Govt corruption is an issue and really only the rich councils can only operate successful using bribes and back handers.
  
  As for networking the Spanish use whats called Enchufe, its not a group you can easily join, its not on the web.
  
  Its basically gaining friends in high places, once your friendly and you serve a purpose you`ll achieve more friends easily, you`ll be expected to offer favours whilst in return gaining favours.
  
  If you`ve nothing to offer, you won`t be used and friends won`t arrive.
  
  Spanish people pride themselves on either being able to help or knowing somebody who can help.
  
  In my work, two guys were arguing about who could provide me a hire car cheaply, they heard I was asking for some hire car telephone numbers, they instantly took over, did away with a-z listings and spent 15 minutes arguing.
  
  One guys brother worked in a hotel, could get me discount, another had a friend in an Insurance office.
  
  3 weeks after I hire one of one of the guys, i found out I`d save nothing.
  
  If I`d stayed ringing companies, I`d have saved money and frankly hassle.
  
  My Wife explained its a male dominated society, I was new guiri and they wanted to dominate me and their fellow workers.
  
  I just shook my head, all I wanted was a bloody hire car.
  
  But that`s Spain, there helpful because it`s a way to be top dog, which is important to Spaniards.
  
  You`ll notice in Banks how friendly everyone is, everybody is the managers friend.
  
  Not because they like him/her.