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Dual Citizenship and other nice things

Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 28, 2011 6:16:10 PM CEST

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2011...e_made_hard.php

Everyone who wants to adopt Dutch nationality will soon have to give up their original nationality if that is legally possible, home affairs minister Piet Hein Donner said on Monday.

At the moment, for example, people who marry a Dutch citizen can keep their original nationality if they decide to become Dutch as well.

'Dutch citizenship is the crown on participation and integration into society,' Donner said in a briefing, outlining plans to toughen up the rules on becoming Dutch. The new measures were included in the coalition agreement.

Language tests

The minister is also planning to introduce compulsory language tests for everyone. Some people are currently exempt.

New Dutch nationals will also have a family income of at least the minimum wage and show that they have at least two years work experience or have some sort of professional qualification.

The minister has opened an internet portal where everyone can comment on the proposed changes.

In four weeks time, the draft legislation will be sent to the council of state for its assessment.

© DutchNews.nl

So those of you who are married to a Dutchie, and reaching your three-year mark when you can apply for citizenship can forget it if you want to keep your original nationality and if you haven't worked here for two years. Stay-at-home moms? Forget about it. Retired? Forget about it.

Me, whose only adult kid lives in Canada, and is too old to move here? Well, I'm forgetting about it too. If anything ever happened to him, I'm his only parent. I can't have a different nationality than him!

And Dutch tests for allemaal!

I wonder how they'll feel when this country is chock-a-block full of foreigners who have no intention of becoming Dutch?

Here's the link to the internet portal so you or your Dutchie can make your opinions known:

http://www.internetconsultatie.nl/nationaliteitsrecht
pepec
- 2359 posts
March 28, 2011 6:37:00 PM CEST

Like so many things this government wants, I doubt if it will happen. There is always something as (European) law, something even ministers have to honor. It is probably illegal to separate between working and non-working people.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 28, 2011 6:44:47 PM CEST

pepec (Mar 28 2011, 04:37 PM) said: > original post
Like so many things this government wants, I doubt if it will happen. There is always something as (European) law, something even ministers have to honor. It is probably illegal to separate between working and non-working people.

I hope you're right. But a lot of doors have closed since I've moved here in 2004.

So many questions swirling through my head. Would it be retroactive is a big one...
pepec
- 2359 posts
March 28, 2011 6:51:46 PM CEST

I think a lot will depend on the Senate election in May. The provinces choose the Eerste Kamer. The minority coalition will probably fail to get a majority there. And then they have to adjust some of the things they want. (And in the latest polls the gedoogregering would get only 74 seats in Tweede Kamer.)
ThePurpleCow
- 1022 posts
March 28, 2011 7:14:48 PM CEST

For citizens of the European Union he has no legal right to demand language lessons.

Secondly, is he going to demand language lessons from those managers who come here working for American, Chinese or Indian companies that are bringing much needed inward investment into the Netherlands?
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 28, 2011 7:24:27 PM CEST

the_purplecow (Mar 28 2011, 05:14 PM) said: > original post
For citizens of the European Union he has no legal right to demand language lessons.

Secondly, is he going to demand language lessons from those managers who come here working for American, Chinese or Indian companies that are bringing much needed inward investment into the Netherlands?

Well, tests (of course, a person usually needs one to be able to do the other). But I agree, I can't see how they can enforce that or how it possibly can work.

Ironically, the government is just encouraging more foreigners in the country, not more Dutch people.
gavin_stok
March 28, 2011 9:18:17 PM CEST

All I can say is you get what they voted for!

The Netherlands' international reputation gets damaged with each and every one of these new/changed "policies".
pepec
- 2359 posts
March 28, 2011 9:39:23 PM CEST

gavin_stok (Mar 28 2011, 06:18 PM) said: > original post
All I can say is you get what they voted for!

But that is the sad thing. Half of the population didn't vote for this government. They have the least possible majority. And in the last elections a few weeks ago they lost even that.
ldyparadox99
- 314 posts
March 29, 2011 9:00:31 AM CEST

canuckywoman (Mar 28 2011, 04:44 PM) said: > original post
I hope you're right. But a lot of doors have closed since I've moved here in 2004.

So many questions swirling through my head. Would it be retroactive is a big one...

That one is going to be interesting. Especially since it will mean they will have to either make an exemption for the princess or she has to lose her duel nationality. Wonder if she feels dutch enough to give it up?

And I think the government will be surprised, if it is retroactive, on how many people will give up their dutch nationality vs. their original.

I was planning on getting my dutch nationality this year but will wait and see...I am NOT paying the US government $500 to give up my US nationality and then also be double taxed for 10 years to prove my intention wasn't tax invasion. That's idiotic. I'm also not paying 800 euro for a dutch nationality only to have it taken away again.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 29, 2011 11:36:04 AM CEST

ldyparadox99 (Mar 29 2011, 07:00 AM) said: > original post
That one is going to be interesting. Especially since it will mean they will have to either make an exemption for the princess or she has to lose her duel nationality. Wonder if she feels dutch enough to give it up?

And I think the government will be surprised, if it is retroactive, on how many people will give up their dutch nationality vs. their original.

I was planning on getting my dutch nationality this year but will wait and see...I am NOT paying the US government $500 to give up my US nationality and then also be double taxed for 10 years to prove my intention wasn't tax invasion. That's idiotic. I'm also not paying 800 euro for a dutch nationality only to have it taken away again.

Doesn't permanent residency cost about the same? Same requirements too now. I would think that, if it were retroactive, it would be replaced with a permanent residence permit, or at least should be.

If they really think being dual is a problem, then it should be retroactive. Everybody who is registered as dual should get a letter from the IND demanding that they choose. But as the only problem is in their pea-brains, the real answer is to allow everybody to be dual, kennismigrants, "import brides", whatever. They are only discouraging citizenship and encouraging a lack of what little loyalty we feel now.
qed
- 42 posts
March 31, 2011 11:20:45 AM CEST

I don't think loyalty is what they are after ....
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 31, 2011 2:59:20 PM CEST

qed (Mar 31 2011, 09:20 AM) said: > original post
I don't think loyalty is what they are after ....

Obedience? Control?
sambatullips
- 78 posts
March 31, 2011 3:25:05 PM CEST

There is something fundamentally wrong about retroactive laws….
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 31, 2011 3:50:52 PM CEST

sambatullips (Mar 31 2011, 01:25 PM) said: > original post
There is something fundamentally wrong about retroactive laws….

I'm hoping that it isn't retroactive...The government hasn't come out and said it, publicly stating that it's for NEW citizenship applications...but if their aim is to abolish dual nationality totally...
miromidy
- 17 posts
April 1, 2011 2:01:19 PM CEST

canuckywoman (Mar 31 2011, 12:50 PM) said: > original post
I'm hoping that it isn't retroactive...The government hasn't come out and said it, publicly stating that it's for NEW citizenship applications...but if their aim is to abolish dual nationality totally...

It won't be retroactive, assuming it goes through, which is doubtful. At least I hope it won't, having just gotten dual citizenship (U.S./Dutch) last month! Making it retroactive would cause too many administrative and PR problems for the government.
Deleted Member
- 5427 posts
April 1, 2011 2:09:14 PM CEST

The day I have to take dutch citizenship to stay here is the day I put my flat up for sale and make plans to leave.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
April 1, 2011 2:12:48 PM CEST

mrfook (Apr 1 2011, 12:09 PM) said: > original post
The day I have to take dutch citizenship to stay here is the day I put my flat up for sale and make plans to leave.

Well, being EU already, you don't need to really. You have practically the same rights as a Dutchie. I don't.
Deleted Member
- 5427 posts
April 1, 2011 2:39:35 PM CEST

canuckywoman (Apr 1 2011, 11:12 AM) said: > original post
Well, being EU already, you don't need to really. You have practically the same rights as a Dutchie. I don't.

For now,yes.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
April 1, 2011 2:45:42 PM CEST

mrfook (Apr 1 2011, 12:39 PM) said: > original post
For now,yes.

I think you're safe unless the UK decides to reject the EU. If not, Brussels' laws will always supercede the Netherlands'.
fortuner
- 10421 posts
April 3, 2011 1:49:58 PM CEST

mrfook (Apr 1 2011, 12:09 PM) said: > original post
The day I have to take dutch citizenship to stay here is the day I put my flat up for sale and make plans to leave.

Yep, me too...
donrickles
April 3, 2011 2:15:32 PM CEST

canuckywoman (Mar 29 2011, 08:36 AM) said: > original post
If they really think being dual is a problem, then it should be retroactive. Everybody who is registered as dual should get a letter from the IND demanding that they choose. But as the only problem is in their pea-brains, the real answer is to allow everybody to be dual, kennismigrants, "import brides", whatever. They are only discouraging citizenship and encouraging a lack of what little loyalty we feel now.

Remember that this idea was put forward by Donner, who's arguably the dumbest guy in NL politics. He'd probably try to make it retroactive, which will cause all kinds of chaos and crap...which he'll then deny and try to ignore.

The CDA, VVD and PVV haven't been able to put forward one decent argument why Dutch citizens, for example, shouldn't be allowed to have dual nationality. Instead, it's always about how they think that immigrants should be forced to choose, blah blah blah.

It doesn't work now, didn't work last year and won't work last year. The policy has failed. Yet, in true Dutch political fashion, they do everything to ignore reality and keep trying to force reality to fit their pinheaded notions of the world.

If you want a sign of how marginalised NL has become, they weren't invited to the recent G20 summits (at all), weren't invited to the Libya party hosted by Sarkozy and were placed between Kazakhstan and Mongolia in the speaking order at a recent NATO conference. NL is, quite simply, irrelevant.
pepec
- 2359 posts
April 3, 2011 2:40:17 PM CEST

Why should a small country like the Netherlands play a major role in the world? The UK, Germany, France have a population 5/6 times as big. I don't want my country to be in G20 etc. It may be prestigious for some politicians, but in my opinion it is much more peaceful to play a minor role in world politics.
sunnydaze
- 227 posts
April 3, 2011 4:13:14 PM CEST

canuckywoman (Mar 31 2011, 10:50 PM) said: > original post
I'm hoping that it isn't retroactive...The government hasn't come out and said it, publicly stating that it's for NEW citizenship applications...but if their aim is to abolish dual nationality totally...

Just my bloomin luck too, hope it won't happen! When we registered at the military police in Dordrecht 17 years ago we were told I could not stay after three months, my husband and I were shocked! (Aussie, married, he Dutch) The military police wanted to know how many bedrooms were in my husbands parents house, we said why? he said, "because there may be people more needier than you"!

Well, we then decided, lets go back to Australia as we really could not believe how impossible it seemed, it took 4 weeks for permanent residency to Australia to come through from the Hague for hubby and 18 years later we now are coming back and will try again! who knows what will unfold. We are a bit older and wiser and the dutch consul in Australia keeps telling me it will be a walk in the park ....... hmmm?...............
donrickles
April 3, 2011 6:15:28 PM CEST

pepec (Apr 3 2011, 11:40 AM) said: > original post
Why should a small country like the Netherlands play a major role in the world? The UK, Germany, France have a population 5/6 times as big. I don't want my country to be in G20 etc. It may be prestigious for some politicians, but in my opinion it is much more peaceful to play a minor role in world politics.

Its politicians seem to think that it plays a major role. In trying to do this, they have gotten to the point where it plays no role at all... or at least one where everyone ignores it (even within the EU).
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
April 4, 2011 12:11:08 PM CEST

sunnydaze (Apr 3 2011, 02:13 PM) said: > original post
Just my bloomin luck too, hope it won't happen! When we registered at the military police in Dordrecht 17 years ago we were told I could not stay after three months, my husband and I were shocked! (Aussie, married, he Dutch) The military police wanted to know how many bedrooms were in my husbands parents house, we said why? he said, "because there may be people more needier than you"!

Well, we then decided, lets go back to Australia as we really could not believe how impossible it seemed, it took 4 weeks for permanent residency to Australia to come through from the Hague for hubby and 18 years later we now are coming back and will try again! who knows what will unfold. We are a bit older and wiser and the dutch consul in Australia keeps telling me it will be a walk in the park ....... hmmm?...............

I don't find the Dutch consulates in any country to be knowledgeable. The IND rep you speak to in person (because the fish-faces manning the phones aren't paid to have a clue) will give you the facts. The main one being, Dutchie must have a Dutch job with a minimum wage and a contract of at least a year to sponsor the family (or have a Dutch business; not sure of the requirements) , unless you have an EU passport. Very black and white, but your marital status or family is irrelevant because you can always stay in Australia as far as they are concerned. The law is designed specifically to discourage you from moving here. Just expect that and be pleasantly surprised if it all goes smoothly!