Dear Friends,
Hope all have doing great.
I have a query regarding the payment of fees for 30% rule application.
If we change jobs and as mentioned in other posts we need to apply for 30% rule application. My current employer has paid fees when we applied for the first time. Now, if i change job, will the new employer also pay the fees. Is this usual or not?
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards,
VVP
My husband went through this 'change of employer' 3 times - never, not once, did he have to pay any fees! If your new employer employs a private company to do the paperwork (many use payroll outsourcing firms) then they will have to pay, but if HR do it, then I don't think so. It should make NO difference to you. It is NOT ok for them to pass this cost on to you! and if they try to do this, you need to consider what kind of penny-pinching asses you are about to go and work for! The company must choose to either do it themselves or to outsource - they cannot pass the outsource fee onto you.
osita said:
My husband went through this 'change of employer' 3 times - never, not once, did he have to pay any fees! If your new employer employs a private company to do the paperwork (many use payroll outsourcing firms) then they will have to pay, but if HR do it, then I don't think so. It should make NO difference to you. It is NOT ok for them to pass this cost on to you! and if they try to do this, you need to consider what kind of penny-pinching asses you are about to go and work for! The company must choose to either do it themselves or to outsource - they cannot pass the outsource fee onto you.
I am not clear about what you are talking about exactly. Are you saying that if you apply for the 30% ruling and the company outsources the application work to another firm that they shouldn't charge you? If so, I disagree. I worked for a company who said either I could pay their payroll company to do this work or not apply. I just did it myself. They company is not obligated to do work for you that they don't do themselvers. If the service provider includes this activity as part of their fees, then sure, they should ask the service provider to do it. However, it is not difficult to do so I don't see the point of paying of seperate entity. As for if they told you it was taken care of but didn't explain their would be a charge for it, then I'd confront them and tell them it was possible for you to do it yourself for free and you would like them to either take off the charge or reduce it considering you weren't given an opportunity to make an informed decision.
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mvn said:
I am not clear about what you are talking about exactly.
Absolutely no problem, I was addressing the OP anyway :)
Are you saying that if you apply for the 30% ruling and the company outsources the application work to another firm that they shouldn't charge you? If so, I disagree. I worked for a company who said either I could pay their payroll company to do this work or not apply.
I'm wondering what kind of companies you guys are working for! Mr O. has worked for two companies, but due to outsourcing of the IT departments to multinational IT companies, he techinically had four 'emplpyment contracts' and therefore, has had 3 're-application'. Never, not once, big company or small, did they even mention he pay the cost for the re-applications: it was accepted that the employer sorts this out. I don't know why you two got so unlucky - but in your shoes, I think Mr O. would have taken this as a portent and already be looking for a more decent employer.
I think if there is a lesson to be learned here - make sure all the find details are agreed and typed in your contract before you sign it.
OP - finally, I would keep a very close eye to make sure they pay you exactly the correct amount, and don't try to claim the allowance for themselves under some pretext/lie like they can't pay more into your bank that they give your colleagues. That has happened (it was reported on this or another expat forum). Be on your guard.
kiran said:
OMG!! i was not aware that there is no application fees for 30% ruling.... they did not ask me anything and they said they will take care of it. now they deducted 450 euros from my salary... i dont know what to do....
Don't be sad about it, thats normal fees my guess is your employer hired some professional firm to file an application related to 30% tax ruling on behalf of you, and they normally charge for hours spent (ex : Ernst & Young). That money is nothing as compared to benefit you received for next 8 years :).
Captcha a day keeps the spam away :).
osita said:
I'm wondering what kind of companies you guys are working for! I don't know why you two got so unlucky - but in your shoes, I think Mr O. would have taken this as a portent and already be looking for a more decent employer.
I think if there is a lesson to be learned here - make sure all the find details are agreed and typed in your contract before you sign it.
Again I disagree, it is not about being unlucky. I don't think it is universal that if the employer outsources the application process that the employer pays for it. After all the employee gets most of the benefit. At the end of the day, the employer doesn't lose if you do or don't get the ruling.
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I was not informed nor aware of this service costs. If i was then i would have attempted to do it myself as i had all the previous documents with me. In my old company it was taken care and i was not charged for this. Its a bad experience for me. Hope my company resolves this and refunds the amount.
kiran said:
I was not informed nor aware of this service costs. If i was then i would have attempted to do it myself as i had all the previous documents with me. In my old company it was taken care and i was not charged for this. Its a bad experience for me. Hope my company resolves this and refunds the amount.
Good luck with that. I doubt it
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i got the final response. my company say's they cannot do anything... this is the way our company handle things. i am helpless and cannot do much, ... they also promised that they will take care of MVV for my wife etc, and also about company car.....gods knows how that is going to end. may be i will post another thread for querying about whether or not to go for company car... Hard lesson learned for me : think before u sign or at-least ask friends in this forum most important things to consider before signing the contract.....
ouloveit3 said:
Wow ... you got robbed. I have worked for 2 companies and they paid the fee (I guess) because I wasn't even aware that there was a fee. :O Lodge a complaint.
He didn't get robbed. Just because your experience was not paying that doesn't make it the norm. Its like being charged for ketchup in McD's. Why they do that in Holland and not elsewhere, beyond me but that's the way they do it. Frankly you weren't aware of the fee, maybe you got charged and you are just ignorant and ignorance is bliss. Captcha no more, it has to go.
I agree with MVN, it depends on company policy. Some companies pay, some companies dont, there is another category of companies which pay but tax it as a benefit. One of my friend was told his yearly tax returns will be taken care by the company. They did do as promised but still he had to pay roughly 400 euros for it. The company hired PWC to do teh tax filing and PWC charged almost 1000 euros for it and this was taxed as a benefit. From year 2 he gladly refused the gesture from the company and does his tax return for 180 euros with an external consultant.
expatican said:
I agree with MVN, it depends on company policy. Some companies pay, some companies dont, there is another category of companies which pay but tax it as a benefit. One of my friend was told his yearly tax returns will be taken care by the company. They did do as promised but still he had to pay roughly 400 euros for it. The company hired PWC to do teh tax filing and PWC charged almost 1000 euros for it and this was taxed as a benefit. From year 2 he gladly refused the gesture from the company and does his tax return for 180 euros with an external consultant.
Yes, this is taxable as a Benefit-in-kind. Same happened to Mr. O (his were done by E&Y). There is no way to have this totally free... but... mr's O's company explained this to him. It went in his contract along the lines 'Company will pay for the production of personal tax returns but this is taxed as benefit in kind'.
If you are an expat - get it ALL put into the contract, or into an appendix which forms part of the contract: you need the paraaf (initials) on ALL pages of that contract - make sure they are! On Mr O's first contract when we moved here, we had all of the following, and more, included in an appendix that was included in the main contract:
* Company will apply for 30% rule
* Company will pay for x flights per year to home country
* Company will allow 3 extra vacation days in the first year (to be used for registration at various Dutch departments, etc)
* Company will pay the deposit on a rental property to the value of .....
If employee leaves company within 3 years, x, y and z are to be repaid, pro rata.
You should have written into your contract something like:
* Company will apply for partner's MVV
and any other special conditions that you negotiatied.
This is the kind of thing that MUST be written down. If it's not written down, it won't stand up in court should it ever end up there. If they turn round now and say they'll apply for the MVV but never agreed to pay the costs, or even if they said they never agreed to it - there is nothing you can do, except quit. If you're on a fixed term contract, you can't even do that 
kiran said:
OMG!! i was not aware that there is no application fees for 30% ruling.... they did not ask me anything and they said they will take care of it. now they deducted 450 euros from my salary... i dont know what to do....
Of all the people that I have met over the 12 years I've been here with the 30% ruling .. not one of them has ever been billed for such application. Not one - including myself.
The bottom line is ... if there was a fee tied to the 30% application, okay then they should have informed you of this in advance and not just have taken 400 or so euro out of your paycheck all of a sudden.
Your profile says you are from India. I am from America and I would not have thought to make them document all these these things that Osita mentioned above in the Work Contract either. This is because in America .. there are no Work Contracts. Duh!
Like yourself, never in a million years would I have come up with such a list. I did have some requirements that I would have required in any job outside my country like salary, paying to move me and paying for my Dutch lessons etc - but this was agreed upon verbally in the interview. I would not have thought I was dealing with unscuputous people that would agree to such verbally ... and then somehow change their mind or make me pay for it. Noooo.
In the end - there has to be a reasonable expectation of what it means to you personally and financially to take this job.
If the company is so cheap that they are gonna nickel and dime you out of every little bitty thing in relation to your employment with them .. how could you as an expat anticipate these things? How are you going to be able to budget your money if you don't know what they are going to take out of your paycheck all of a sudden?
This is unreasonable.
You got screwed ... you need to lodge a formal complaint via lawyer. You can buy rental insurance and ask for Legal insurance as well. This means anytime you need a lawyer - they will provide one for you for free. (I forgot the Dutch term for it - but ask.) I use Rabobank's All-in-een (All In One) insurance and for very small about per month - I am covered for legal help.
The basis being: Poor business practices. There was no-disclosure to you of the expenses you would personally incur after taking a job with them which incudes the 30% rule application. I wonder if they are gonna make you pay for your KM permit? That should have been disclosed to you as well.
Indeed .. I wonder what ELSE they are gonna make you pay for? 
ouloveit3 said:
kiran said:
OMG!! i was not aware that there is no application fees for 30% ruling.... they did not ask me anything and they said they will take care of it. now they deducted 450 euros from my salary... i dont know what to do....
Of all the people that I have met over the 12 years I've been here with the 30% ruling .. not one of them has ever been billed for such application. Not one
If the company is so cheap that they are gonna nickel and dime you out of every little bitty thing in relation to your employment with them ..
This is unreasonable.
You got screwed ...
Indeed .. I wonder what ELSE they are gonna make you pay for?
With that logic then the Netherlands just screws everyone. Stop with the crap that your experience is the only way it should go. Why do we get charged for Ketchup, why do they charge you for the key holder when you copy keys. Holland has a cheap mentality so we all got screwed
It is typical dutch to not explain what you have to pay because it is their norm in their mind that nothing is included. You operate from the perspective, then you know to ask for everything and about anything
You wonder what else they make you pay for? Give me a break the whole cheap mentality here, you pay for the floor, you pay for the curtains, nothing is included. Stop your delusions.
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I don't think that the Dutch are trying to screw everyone, but I'll tell you what, they try it far more with expats!
For example: Why are makelaars going as far as advertising on the street for people to rent their houses to expat tenants? Is it because Dutch people 'like foreigners'? No! It's because they think we are all on whopping salaries - and they want a share of it! - while thinking (correctly in most cases) that expats are green as grass about tenants rights (given notice to terminate, an expat most likely won't fight it like a Dutchie would). I'm saying this on a day when several of my (non-Dutch) colleagues on 1 year contracts were told they aren't getting them renewed - people who work really hard, yet a Dutch girl (never in work on time) got a renewal, and a Dutch guy (not fully aware of his surroundings) was awarded a vast contract.
It's entirely possible that depending on skillset people are able to negotiate more, or be treated better. I know Ouloveit is in SAP (a real skills shortage area) and Mr O has a different but equally scarce skillset. Although no indication on either the OPs or MVNs skills as I don't know what they do, but I guess if an employer believes he can find a replacement relatively easily (even if not locally sourced) then he would be less willing to 'give out' lots of sweetners to secure the deal.
But seriously, if both Ouloveit and myself haven't heard of this being charged for the application, then perhaps it's you who have been unlucky (rather than us being lucky) - and all the references to paying extra ketchup at McDonalds won't make any difference: thats comparing apples and pears.
All I said is her and your experience should not be considered the norm. You want to call it unlucky, it doesn't matter. The part about paying extra won't make a difference is wrong. It highlights the point that we pay for it in Holland when no one else pays for it in any other country because that is the mentality, it is not about luckiness. And yeah the dutch are opportunists, they screw expats, they screw each other, no surprise there. They renewed the dutchies contracts because of their closedmindedness and also they work for cheaper. It is only about money here. It is stupid they didn't renew the good workers because even if you pay someone less if they don't work, then you pay something that brings you nothing.
captcha sucks
