Hello everyone,
I am facing problems with Vodafone. Can someone help me please.
Two or three months ago I got their internet-tv-phone house package. They are sending me invoices with the wrong amounts and they even asked me to pay them back certain amount of money which they claimed that they had mistakenly transfered to my bank account. I have been explaining them on the phone and in emails that they are asking me to pay much more than what I'm supposed to pay and that I've never received any money ever in my bank account from them. They are also charging me for 'Extra TV senders', which I never ordered. They admitted that they have confused my account/contract with someone else and they have then closed those from my tv but they still keep on charging me money for 'extra senders'. So I asked them that they need to investigate and correct the things in their systems. I've paid them what I'm supposed to pay. But they are not willing to listen to me. They insist that they are correct and that I must pay them all the amount. In their last reminder they say that If I don't pay the money in 15 days then they will close my contract and send my details to incassobureau for collection.
What do I do in this situation?
Is there any Dutch organization or department, where I can complain about Vodafone?
Is there anyone who has been in the similar situation?
Regards...
I would think your first course of action would not be to complain, but to prepare for any legal action they take. Seriously, once it goes to the incasso, they don't have to deal with your complaints, it's a case of pay up or 'tell it to the judge'.
One of the legal lokets (such as www.hetjl.nl) will be able to give you free advice, 'standard letters' for you to personalise, and a plan of action. They can also recommend a lawyer in your area who deals with cases of this kind, but this might cost more than the amount they reckon you owe them, if you don't have rechtsbijstandverzekering.
The loket should also have the contact details for the ombudsman, but perhaps you could find information on http://www.trosradar.nl (which is a consumer forum).
I was in very similar situation with TELE2 a while ago, only in our situation we refused to pay (same thing-they were asking the money that we were not owing them) and it ended up with incasso. We just kept on talking to them, explaining teh situation (every time from beginning since they rarely put stuff in computer) and sending letters and emails with documentation. It was very frustrating since we were going in circles all the time.
In the end I took a call from incasso and thinking it is actually TELE2 (my dutch was worse then) spend 5 minutes yelling at them (I did apologize once I realized who it was). ANyways, that seemed to do it, since they managed to sort it out within a week and we never heard from them again. I am not advising you to be rude to them, it might not get same results- I am surprised it did get results at all, since I didn't give any new information, but I was so fed up after 7 months that I lost my patience.
It loooks like wrong billing is big business here, and in combination with incasso bureaos the result is usually in their favor since people with rather pay up than potentially deal with the court. Its a win-win for them since they also make some money every time you call their service desk. I am surprised it has not been dealt with already on goverment level, but it is how it is so my advice is - decide now what is acceptable for you. If you don't want the hassle - pay them and if you are prepared to go further contact one of the legal lokets that osita gave you if only to get letter template and write them a proper letter.
Good luck and keep us updated.
In my case also, I've been trying to explain them the same things again and again.
Even if I pay them the money which they claim that they have transfered to my account (which I never received), the problems won't end there as they still keep on charging me, every month, the money for the 'extra senders'.
Can I not just wait and try to explain the things to incassobureau (like Peony did), if and when they contact me?
Regards...
How could Vodafone insist they are right? Have they showed you the evidence? When did they transfer the so-called money to your bank account? Can they show you the record? Can you show them your bank statement where there was no such transfer at all? Can they show you the evidence that you have "ordered" the extra tv senders? When I first came here, I thought why Dutch people don't like changes at all, things like changing to another tv/internet provider, or another electricity/gas supplier.....etc. Now I understand why. We heard many stories about wrong bills, bad connection, nobody by the customer service telephone line, (delibrately?) understate your monthly bills at the beginning of the contract and later by the end of the year charge you back all in one time and of course raise your monthly consumption (actually) to the same level while you were with the previous old supplier.....So within one year, you'll realise nothing changes but getting more frustrated with dealing with them.
Three months ago, an invoice (A) sent to me by Vodafone had my address but a different name at the top. It had a negative balance on it. When I phoned vodafone, they said that this is the result of my complain and by sending me this amount they are actually giving me two months of free service/subscription. I told them that I didn't complain for anything till that time and that I've not received anything in my bank account. They asked me to just ignore that invoice in that case.
Two months ago, in invoice (B) they sent to me had the amount of the first invoice A as positive balance, plus they charged me two months of extra senders in that invoice, along with other things which were correct and I payed only those. I phoned them again and they said that they have mistakely transfered money to my account in their first invoice A and so they are now taking it back in this invoice B. I once again told them that I've not received any money at all from Vodafone. So, how can you get back the money which you have never sent to my account. They said that they have the proof that the money has been sent to my account. I said that I've the proof through my bank statements that no money has ever come to my account from Vodafone. The only things I've received are my salary and some money from belastingdienst and nothing else. When I said that I never ordered any extra senders, they had a very strange anwer for me. They said that they don't have any proof that I didn't order those extra senders. They said that I can try sending an email to klachten@vodafonevast.nl and see if I can get the things sorted out. I once again explained everything. They finally admitted that they have confused my account with another guy and they have closed extra senders but they still keep on charging me for those and they still want me to pay that other money which they never sent to me. I'm sure that money is sent to that other guy whose account they have mixed up with mine. But they are not willing to investigate and/or understand anyting.
I never had any money related issues with UPC. There were two reasons why I left them. There was sometimes noise in the telephone line and once every few days the signal strength used to get very poor because of which the internet used to get disconnected and I had to restart the modem and router again to get the internet back.
Regards...
The thing is that it doesn't matter that Vodafone can't show that they have transfered the money, or that your contract is more expensive than what you are paying. You might be completely right, but you will still maybe end up paying more than what they are asking. Surreal?
From what I've understood this is the procedure - vodafone charges you money you don't want to pay (since you didn't order the service or so). After few months of back and forth they give the case to incasso which will then try to charge you as well (at that point you are not only asked the original amount from vodafone but also incasso fee). Incasso will send letters and call you, and after a while just get the amount from your bank account. At that point the amount they take off is higher than before due to their fee getting bigger (all those letters cost money). And then it is your right to take them to court (and pay all proceedings yourself) to get it back. I think you get court fees back in the end if you win. At tha point you sucessfully spent about a year of your life dealing with internet provider.
And thats why people just pay.
Don't rely on any verbal communication with Vodafone anymore. Actually such communication in NL is not for solving problems, instead creating them. If you've ever worked in a real Dutch environment, you'd know what I mean. If you as a staff asking your senior colleagues for information you need to work on, their answer is "Doe het normaal!". So those by the telephone hotline don't know what they are talking.
Write your complain on paper directly to the incassobureau, attach copies of your evidence, highlight the entries on your evidence, explain your points step by step. Make your complain as easy as possible to understand. CC the same letter with copies of evidence to Vodafone. On the letter set a (resonable) date when you want your feedback from them.
You don't need to pay for what is not justified. We have also gone through this but not with a tele company. At the end we also wrote a letter to the company complaining that they gave the wrong information to the incassobureau. Of course we don't expect anything from the company, but at least let them know we are not that easy to squeenze.
Take control of the matter and don't let it go to a incassobureau. Instead, collect ALL the evidence (including copies of all your bank accounts to SHOW them how they've debitted/creditted your account) and then go unannounced to their Head Office in Amsterdam ASAP. Their address: Vodafone, Q-Port Building, Kingsfordweg 43, 1043 GP, Amsterdam Sloterdijk. (They are close to the station). Even though their client service dept is probably not at this address, someone with more than half a brain will be interested in your case and look at the info you have. Oh, and when they’ve agreed to sort the matter then and there, tell them you want to be reimbursed for your efforts/inconvenience AND a free mobile upgrade for 12 months.
If I take time off from work and go to Vodafone headoffice and if in case they are not willing to once again listen and sort out my issue then my visit to them will also go in vain.
If Vodafone closes my account and passes the balance on to incassobureau then in that case at least I won't have to deal with Vodafone any more and I'll be able to switch to some other provider. Otherwise, If I close my account with them now (with 8-9 months remaining in my contract) then they will ask me pay for all those months.
I don't know how much extra charges will that incassobureau add to the amount that Vodafone is claiming. If incassobureau doesn't listen either, even then I think that it's better to pay them extra 50 euros or so and get rid of Vodafone instead of paying vodafone now and then keep paying them for the next 8-9 months.
Could that be the way to go...
Regards...
flevoland said:
If I take time off from work and go to Vodafone headoffice and if in case they are not willing to once again listen and sort out my issue then my visit to them will also go in vain.
Correct. This is why the best advise you're going to get here is make every communication IN WRITING. Vodaphone won't like that because they know that 'in writing' means they either have to ignore you (looks bad in court) or they have to give you a detailed reply rather than some made-up bullshit they could deny later in court.
I don't know how much extra charges will that incassobureau add to the amount that Vodafone is claiming. If incassobureau doesn't listen either, ...
You need to understand that the incasso is NOT your friend. They are not a mediator. They are not going to listen to you. At this stage, you are going to pay up or you are going to a courtroom to argue (in Dutch only) why you don't owe it.
Question: Can you afford a lawyer to fight for you in court?
* If you can, then choose this route and you might win if your paper evidence is good enough.
* If you cannot, you do NOT want it to get to the incasso stage.
Send an official letter to Vodafone (get the Juridisch Loket to help you to write it - they will help you in English, at least, and for free). Follow the advice the Juridisch Loket gives you! Seriously, it's your last chance to sort this out without extra costs to you!
Flevoland, what you don't seem to realise is that an incassobureau is not your friend. They are a debt collection agency appointed to get the money their clients are owed. They generally charge 15% of the amount owed (which the debtor pays) on top of eventual legal fees (if it goes that far). I would guess that incassobureaus are more ruthless than their clients since there are so many of these operators in NL (over 600 in 2008), that vie for the same business. When they’ve finished with you, they’ll have you blacklisted which is exactly what you don’t want. Sadly, once the wheels are in motion you WILL NOT BE ABLE to stop it. On the other hand, Vodafone does not want bad publicity especially if they ARE in the wrong. And getting legal aid involved is premature. You’ve only had an abonnement for 2 - 3 months, so it should be simple to solve by dealing with the right people in the right manner. If your Dutch is not good (enough), get someone whose Dutch is and can deal with the matter effectively. Let them check your documents/statements/proof and if Vodafone is in the wrong, get them to phone Vodafone’s Customer Services on your behalf and set the matter straight. On the other hand, going to their head office may seem extreme but someone there will listen and take whatever information you have and deal with it quickly. Bottom line is, if you want more hassles than you have now; wait for a third party to get involved.
I have phoned Juridisch Loket and they have made an appointment for me for next Monday. Let's see what happens now.. I hope that I'll be able to take some right step advised by Juridisch Loket before Vodafone forwards my details to incassobureau.
Hi
I have a solution that works very well in The Netherlands. You write a nice email to the CEO of the company explaining everything. Its easy to find out the CEO's name by looking at press releases or the company data on yahoo finance . Then you guess the email address. for example firstname.lastname@vodafone.com . I can tell you for sure that vodafone employees email addresses use the .com and not .nl If you guess the incorrect address you will get a delivery fail report.
Hope this helps. Its worked for me with about 3 different companies in NL now and once a complaint hits the CEO's desk it is resolved within a matter of hours !!!
flevoland said:
Hello everyone,
I am facing problems with Vodafone. Can someone help me please.
Two or three months ago I got their internet-tv-phone house package. They are sending me invoices with the wrong amounts and they even asked me to pay them back certain amount of money which they claimed that they had mistakenly transfered to my bank account. I have been explaining them on the phone and in emails that they are asking me to pay much more than what I'm supposed to pay and that I've never received any money ever in my bank account from them. They are also charging me for 'Extra TV senders', which I never ordered. They admitted that they have confused my account/contract with someone else and they have then closed those from my tv but they still keep on charging me money for 'extra senders'. So I asked them that they need to investigate and correct the things in their systems. I've paid them what I'm supposed to pay. But they are not willing to listen to me. They insist that they are correct and that I must pay them all the amount. In their last reminder they say that If I don't pay the money in 15 days then they will close my contract and send my details to incassobureau for collection.
What do I do in this situation?
Is there any Dutch organization or department, where I can complain about Vodafone?
Is there anyone who has been in the similar situation?
Regards...
I have done the same thing-write emails to the CEO, it is likely to be screened but if you do spree amongst top managers, one of them gets through and it does work if they actually get it. NOW as already suggested, you must document everything and start writing letters to them using certified mail. The first one should be written with complaint on the top. Then you summarize what has happened and warn them that if they don't get their act together, you will sue them for aggravation and wasting your time since the bill has been paid. And CC/send a copy to the incasso as they normally don't like to get involved when they realize there is no money to be had at the end of the day. Don't go into too much detail because I found they like to use one small detail against you. Just the highligts with a timeline.
flevoland said:
I have phoned Juridisch Loket and they have made an appointment for me for next Monday. Let's see what happens now.. I hope that I'll be able to take some right step advised by Juridisch Loket before Vodafone forwards my details to incassobureau.
Hi Flevoland - Did you have your meeting with the Juridisch Loket? What happened?
Yes, I went to Juridisch Loket and told them all that. They wrote me a letter which they advised me to send to Vodafone along with my bank statements. It was almost the same thing which I've been sending them before via email. However, this time it was in Dutch and in the end we threatened Vodafone that if they don't correctly resolve the issue then we will get in contact with 'Geschillencommissie Telecommunicatie'. But this didn't work either. Their reply was once again the same. So now I'm going to phone 'Geschillencommissie Telecommunicatie'. They are located n Den Haag and if I've to go there then I'll take a day off from work and spend money on my trip to that place. Vodafone won't still get any harm even if I win and am proved to be right.
Flevoland, Your contract is still (new-ish) and having to wait any length of time for a 3rd party to (maybe) sort some basic issues seems crazy (BTW, during which time your case might still end up at an incasso bureau). I strongly recommend you review the information you gave Vodafone when you started your contract. If you don’t have it ask them for a copy and then suggest they check it against what is in their system versus what you personally selected/provided them with. If your Dutch is not good enough, get a native Dutchy to help. Thereafter, if you still believe Vodafone is being unfair, why not contact Bart Hofker who is the Director of Consumer Business at Vodafone. He is also a member of the Dutch advertising code commission (i.e. not related to Vodafone) and recently (23 June) went public explaining consumer billing issues at Vodafone. Bottom-line, his input will probably override that of anyone else. Consider some of the facts: Your case would have been reviewed by numerous people at Vodafone all of whom have the same info (about you based on what you gave them or which was inputted mistakenly or not). Vodafone is a highly successful global company operating in over 70 countries. (So it should have a VERY WELL-TESTED customer service programme which is being used to deal with your matter). However, their Dutch Internet/TV/Telephone package is a new offering launched late 2011 so its administration may very well have been going through teething problems when you signed on. Good luck.
I have been experiencing for the last six years in holland at places like hospitals, banks, IND, gemeente, my own work place, etc... and now also vodafone that people here make a lot of mistakes and then don't like to be held responsible for what they did or said and so easily find escape. They often know nothing or very little about certain things (which mostly are very critical to their job/work) but don't let others know about their inability and boldly continue saying/doing false things. Even when they are later corrected they don't get ashamed and/or embarrased.
I've decided to give up on Vodafone... I've paid them what they were claiming... As melloncoli just wrote in the above post, I can't wait for Geschillencommissie to give me an advice and/or to take an action in the next 5-6 months during which I'll have definetely received incassobureau... I've lots of other things to do and think about in my life and can't chase Vodafone any more... I thought that it will be easy and simple but it is not and Vodafone knows that too and they probably also know that people won't get into hassel for a hundred or two hundred euros. That's why they are not easily willing to correct themselves...
