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Hygiene - Lack of it/ also lack of common sense - !!!!!!!! IN THE NORTH

kelso1975
March 14, 2011 3:38:35 PM CET

Ok Dutchies whats going on here??

So you want to air your duvet - keep it clean and fresh.???????..............................

Why then roll it up as tight as you can and stuff it our of a tiny tiny window?? What is it that the dutch this actually does? WIERD

Ok so your so tight you dont want hot water in toilets????????..............................

- Also the dirty little dutchies - are vile in not washing thier hands properly!!!!! I see them run two fingers under the tap - i mean wheres the sense in 'lets have cold water for hand washing after a loo visits'??????????

YUK CLEAN UP!

SEE the smily with the tounge sticking out? light and easy, i dont have a machine gun or a bomb and the end of my post. Sorry for the dirty little dutchies - was - tounge in cheek but did not mean to offend those who it did Betsie.

i wont hold my breath for an apology from any of you however for your comments
From the horrid little british lemon
pepec
- 2359 posts
March 14, 2011 3:42:13 PM CET

Boring. I bet you are British.
betsie
March 14, 2011 3:55:14 PM CET

This OP sounds obsessive to me.

My advice would be to try to get a grip, or leave the country.
pepec
- 2359 posts
March 14, 2011 4:00:08 PM CET

And the temperature of the water is of no importance. Bacteria are killed when exposed to temperatures above 65 degrees. Far too hot for skin to endure. Cold, luke warm or hot makes no difference hygienically speaking.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 14, 2011 4:01:19 PM CET

I still don't understand why there aren't hot water taps in public washrooms though. Is that really sanitary?
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 14, 2011 4:04:12 PM CET

canuckywoman (Mar 14 2011, 04:01 PM) said: > original post
I still don't understand why there aren't hot water taps in public washrooms though. Is that really sanitary?

Jumpin' Jiminy! Pepe anticipates my posts now!!

But I answered my own question...even though it is Wikipedia, I doubt the subject of handwashing is controversial enough to cause much debate:

However, warm, soapy water is more effective than cold, soapy water at removing the natural oils on your hands which hold soils and bacteria.[3] Contrary to popular belief however, scientific studies have shown that using warm water has no effect on reducing the microbial load on hands
betsie
March 14, 2011 4:05:48 PM CET

I know someone with obsessive-compulsive disorder, she wants everything to be sterile. She keeps a bottle of Detol in the WC and soaks her hands in a Detol solution frequently.

Her kids have all developed asthma and allergies, probably from being over-protected from "germs".
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 14, 2011 4:10:14 PM CET

betsie (Mar 14 2011, 04:05 PM) said: > original post
I know someone with obsessive-compulsive disorder, she wants everything to be sterile. She keeps a bottle of Detol in the WC and soaks her hands in a Detol solution frequently.

Her kids have all developed asthma and allergies, probably from being over-protected from "germs".

Most of us without OCD from across the pond have been raised to believe, rightly or wrongly, that water must be warm to kill hand bacteria. Obviously, we've been mistaken, but after a lifetime of washing my hands in warm water, I still don't feel that my hands are clean enough when I use cold.

There are even some spare posters in our office washrooms leftover from last year's H1N1 scare that reinforces that idea, saying that we must use WARM water to kill the germs.
pepec
- 2359 posts
March 14, 2011 4:15:38 PM CET

canuckywoman (Mar 14 2011, 03:10 PM) said: > original post
H1N1

A virus. Don't know at what temperature it becomes ineffective. But I doubt warm water will make any difference.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 14, 2011 4:21:57 PM CET

pepec (Mar 14 2011, 04:15 PM) said: > original post
A virus. Don't know at what temperature it becomes ineffective. But I doubt warm water will make any difference.

I'm sure. But when you're getting dubious messages from "official" sources, it's hard to separate the myth from the fact.
betsie
March 14, 2011 4:27:36 PM CET

You can't kill a virus. The only way to get rid of it is to wash it off. Scrubbing the hands under running water is the best way if you're dealing with a viral infection in your own home.

"Water was the most effective at removing stomach bug viruses from the hands, Emory University researchers find. They planted stomach bug viruses on volunteers' fingers and allowed them to dry. The results, presented this week at the American Society for Microbiology Meeting in Orlando, Fla., showed the percentage of the viruses removed by water, hand soap, and alcohol-based hand sanitizer. Water removed 96 percent of the virus; liquid antibacterial soap removed 88 percent; and the hand sanitizer removed only 46 percent."
monkeynuts
- 1415 posts
March 14, 2011 9:51:14 PM CET

pepec (Mar 14 2011, 02:42 PM) said: > original post
Boring. I bet you are British.

Boring. I bet you are Dutch.

Actually if you see how this is written I would bet it's not a native English speaker.

Keep a lid on your British hatred Pepe C - it pops up in the most inappropriate places
pepec
- 2359 posts
March 14, 2011 9:55:11 PM CET

monkeynuts (Mar 14 2011, 08:51 PM) said: > original post
Actually if you see how this is written I would bet it's not a native English speaker.

Yes she is: http://community.expatica.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=877202
She even complains about the English of the Dutch:
http://community.expatica.com/forums/topic/5958
monkeynuts
- 1415 posts
March 14, 2011 9:57:50 PM CET

Actually I agree with the Poster. Rolling up a duvet and shoving it out of a window onto the dirty outside wall doesn't make sense.

Also running a few fingers, without soap, under a cold tap is unhygenic and I have witnessed lots of Dutch people doing this at work. I even asked one person why they don't use soap to which they replied they didn't like to.

Cold water on it's own is not going to remove any germs which is why I'm extra careful as I observe so many people sneezing into their hands when they have a cold without washing them afterwards, which is a sure fire way of spreading germs.

I often wondered why a cold/flu spreads so rapidly where I work and it's lack of hand hygiene. Very easy to implement and very effective.
pepec
- 2359 posts
March 14, 2011 9:59:16 PM CET

Of course you agree. According to you the Dutch don't even take a shower.
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
March 15, 2011 7:30:52 AM CET

monkeynuts (Mar 14 2011, 09:57 PM) said: > original post
Actually I agree with the Poster. Rolling up a duvet and shoving it out of a window onto the dirty outside wall doesn't make sense.

Also running a few fingers, without soap, under a cold tap is unhygenic and I have witnessed lots of Dutch people doing this at work. I even asked one person why they don't use soap to which they replied they didn't like to.

Cold water on it's own is not going to remove any germs which is why I'm extra careful as I observe so many people sneezing into their hands when they have a cold without washing them afterwards, which is a sure fire way of spreading germs.

I often wondered why a cold/flu spreads so rapidly where I work and it's lack of hand hygiene. Very easy to implement and very effective.

I haven't had a cold in a year. Used to have them three or four times a year back in Canada.
betsie
March 15, 2011 11:10:12 AM CET

I used to get colds more when I was working in a building with sealed windows and air conditioning.

Trains and planes are usually responsible for the few colds I get these days.

I use hay-fever pills when I catch a cold: they work great in drying it up so that you aren't blowing your nose into handkerchiefs all day.
kelso1975
March 15, 2011 12:27:33 PM CET

why not go get your duvet in from the window before it gets more DIRTY
betsie
March 15, 2011 12:33:43 PM CET

I think you need help, and I mean this in the nicest possible way.
frangpani
- 2 posts
March 15, 2011 12:34:33 PM CET

Hot water in a WC is a basic necessity. To hell with the hygiene factor. In most cases, stand-alone loos in NL are downstairs and are used as guest toilets. They are also conveniently situated close to the kitchen or perhaps to a door leading outside (i.e. to the garden or wherever outside) – so warm water is not a luxury. The idea of using near freezing water, removing soap or properly cleansing soiled, dirty hands using only cold water makes no sense.

But the reason the Dutch DON'T have hot running water in their loos (WC’s) dates back to the years when the loo was right next to the shower cubicle, a standard practice in most homes in NL. In some cases a single room housed the shower, toilet and a tiny hand basin - there was no bath. My guess is that the frugal Dutch simply did not see the need to plumb extra hot water to the basin. My house, built in 1925, has no bathroom according to the original plans. Our current guest loo downstairs which has been enlarged to accommodate our modern needs, used to be the only ablution facilities in our house when it was built. I’ve viewed 30's homes in our dorp that simply had two small rooms, side-by-side (and in the original state); one being the loo and the other a shower cubicle with hand basin. So, no hot water in the loo is about practicality and not cleanliness.

By the way, for those that did not know the modern house with individual rooms as we know it was first introduced in Amsterdam in the 18th century, and then became popular elsewhere in the world.
peony
- 790 posts
March 15, 2011 12:40:17 PM CET

I don't think that labelling OP as having OCD is nice if she only asked a question.

I was actually wondering about only cold water in the toilets as well. Not only because we were tought as well that warm water helps with bacteria, but because I noticed Dutch people that I know never wash their hands after toilet. Some don't even have soap in there. I think that its partly for not being comfortable using cold water, but that can't be the only reason.
Also when we have vistors they do not wash their hands after ariving with a train for example or before dinner.

I agree that excessive washing and sterilising is not good, but washing your hands after being out and about/ after toilet is basic hygene in my opinion.
kelso1975
March 15, 2011 1:00:21 PM CET

kelso1975 (Mar 14 2011, 02:38 PM) said: > original post
Ok Dutchies whats going on here??

So you want to air your duvet - keep it clean and fresh.???????..............................

Why then roll it up as tight as you can and stuff it our of a tiny tiny window?? What is it that the dutch this actually does? WIERD

Ok so your so tight you dont want hot water in toilets????????..............................

- Also the dirty little dutchies - are vile in not washing thier hands properly!!!!! I see them run two fingers under the tap - i mean wheres the sense in 'lets have cold water for hand washing after a loo visits'??????????

YUK CLEAN UP!

The point is that this cold water encourages people NOT TO WASH THIER HANDS - it DISCOURAGES the basic act of maintaining hand hygeine - especially in cold weather. which is why i stated not washing hands PROPERLY

Im Obsessive??? - get a grip im just clean and would rather not touch hands with someone whos just been wiping or holding thier genitals! WHATS WIERD ABOUT THAT??? If I was attending to you as a medically trained professional -well yup most BRITISH people i know would be grateful for my comming from that school of thought. and to those who think this is anal - well im sure there will be less people eating around your table.

The duvet thing - well its just daft and no one objecting to my view has replied to this stating what this little wierd ritual actually aims to achieve??? other than to give the beasties on the wall something to crawl in to!!! I mean? will someone tell me what its all about?

Love and hugs
xxx
kelso1975
March 15, 2011 1:03:45 PM CET

pepec (Mar 14 2011, 02:42 PM) said: > original post
Boring. I bet you are British.

It must take you such a long time to come up with such a complex reply. what an excellent contributer you are. So thought provoking. Your folks must be proud.
kelso1975
March 15, 2011 1:08:40 PM CET

pepec (Mar 14 2011, 03:00 PM) said: > original post
And the temperature of the water is of no importance. Bacteria are killed when exposed to temperatures above 65 degrees. Far too hot for skin to endure. Cold, luke warm or hot makes no difference hygienically speaking.

And the temp of the water? LOL LOL

I love the way you say 'AND' - like you just made an absoloutley fabulous contribution to this discussion - and your following up LOL LOL LOL. But what you actually contributed was ' boring i bet you are british' LOL

maybe read what i actually said? i said - NOT WASHING HANDS PROPERLY - therefore basically not washing hands. So jump of your high horse, read the comment and then be constructive and part of the debate.
betsie
March 15, 2011 1:18:51 PM CET

I don't think that labelling OP as having OCD is nice if she only asked a question.

It would be if anyone had actually done so, but they didn't. I told an anecdote about somebody I know with OCD.

I do, however, find the tone of Kelso's posts obsessive, which doesn't mean she has OCD.