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Professional ethics in the Dutch media

stone
- 2517 posts
January 1, 2011 2:36:24 PM CET

pepec (Jan 1 2011, 01:03 PM) said: > original post
Nobody claims this is an English speaking country. This is a country where lots of people speak reasonable English. That doesn't make it English speaking.

You can't go around promoting yourself as a friendly place where everyone speaks English if you're also a country where the word 'motherf*cker' is used in newspaper headlines. That's just hypocrisy.
pepec
- 2359 posts
January 1, 2011 2:44:04 PM CET

Get over yourself. You see the word once in a headline and all of a sudden you are disturbed. This isn't the UK.
And please don't act as if English speaking countries are any better. The United States gave the world programs like Jerry Springer. What does that tell about American culture.
Mofo is just an innocent word for the Dutch. And the fact that Prince sang a song about it sure didn't make it worse.
stone
- 2517 posts
January 1, 2011 2:56:05 PM CET

bubbba (Dec 31 2010, 02:39 PM) said: > original post
Several years ago, the Reclame Code Commissie got quite a few complaints about this ad for New York Pizza: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYAW3KLp4p8

The Commission ultimately ruled that they had no problem with the copious cursing, or the stereotypical Italian mafioso role, but only expressed concern that the character on the ground was in for more violence, and that children wouldn't understand it's a parody (ala Sopranos).

Here's another example of their advertising: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr-7BpXh71g

Frankly, I think there's other ways to sell pizza than scraping the bottom of the linguistic barrel.

Bubbba, I just watched this now. I thought earlier that you were linking to a pizza advert based on the word 'doos' that appeared a years ago; hence my earlier comment. At the time there was some discussion about the appropriacy of the double entendre. (It didn't involve English I think).

No, these New York Pizza adverts are another example of what I'm talking about. It's astonishing that "Damn f*cking tasty" appeared at all in them. It really annoyed me when I first saw them.

But I suppose the advertisers know their audience and are not interested in how English speakers would regard this. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised to hear that the Reclame Code Commissie had no problem with the use of 'f*cking' in an advert aimed partly at children.

It comes across as really crude. It's unprofessional, off-putting. It feels irresponsible and unethical.

I suppose this is an advert that we'll never see in the international best advertisement shows. I can't help but think that the Dutch, who I admit are not usually so stupid, haven't noticed that certain words used in the movies are not used in mainstream culture, especially the press and advertising.
stone
- 2517 posts
January 1, 2011 3:04:36 PM CET

pepec (Jan 1 2011, 01:44 PM) said: > original post
Get over yourself. You see the word once in a headline and all of a sudden you are disturbed. This isn't the UK.
And please don't act as if English speaking countries are any better. The United States gave the world programs like Jerry Springer. What does that tell about American culture.
Mofo is just an innocent word for the Dutch. And the fact that Prince sang a song about it sure didn't make it worse.

Pepe, I'm not saying that the Dutch are any more foul-mouthed than anyone else. Perhaps they are. I'm not sure.

My point is that the Dutch media don't seem to behave responsibly when it comes to the use of English expletives. Why are 'motherf*cker' and 'f*cking' permitted in the Dutch press and in advertising?

But if you want to argue the point, there is a difference between movies, Jerry Springer and music videos on the one hand and the regulated journalism/advertising sectors on the other.

And since you feel that 'mofo' is an innocent word, perhaps you won't mind me saying something like 'Queen *** is a motherf*cker'.

Right, not so innocent, is it? All of a sudden I'm in danger of prosecution and I have to delete the name... Because even in English, and even with all those asterisks, it's offensive. That's my point.
pepec
- 2359 posts
January 1, 2011 3:13:17 PM CET

Stone, please believe me when I say that until yesterday I never knew that the word mofo was that insulting. And I guess the same goes for most of my fellow countrymen.
Where I agree is that some things are acceptable in Dutch media that are not acceptable in other countries. For example those commercials. Of course this is because it is a different culture. But I really can't be bothered by these words. Foul-mouthedness is not that big a deal in the Dutch media. On the other hand I think shows like Jerry Springer are really insulting. And I also don't get the tabloid like media that are so popular in the UK (that's why I showed that Katie Price picture.) Compared with other countries tabloids in the Netherlands are rather mild.
pepec
- 2359 posts
January 1, 2011 3:17:24 PM CET

stone (Jan 1 2011, 02:04 PM) said: > original post
And since you feel that 'mofo' is an innocent word, perhaps you won't mind me saying something like 'Queen *** is a motherf*cker'.

Right, not so innocent, is it? All of a sudden I'm in danger of prosecution and I have to delete the name... Because even in English, and even with all those asterisks, it's offensive. That's my point.

Lese majeste is punishable by law. Whether that is justified is debatable, and in fact it is debated lots of times. But in defense of it, the queen can't react to it. By law the government is responsible for anything the head of state does or says.
bubbba
- 1489 posts
January 1, 2011 3:43:12 PM CET

pepec (Jan 1 2011, 01:44 PM) said: > original post
And please don't act as if English speaking countries are any better. The United States gave the world programs like Jerry Springer. What does that tell about American culture.

Jerry Springer sure ain't Shakespeare, but it's erudite compared to trash like "Spuiten & Slikken", where the show's 'guests' would take massive amounts of drugs on TV so the viewers at home could enjoy their antics.
bubbba
- 1489 posts
January 1, 2011 3:46:32 PM CET

stone (Jan 1 2011, 01:34 PM) said: > original post
Rock dondo - Interesting analysis. I think you're right. The media here do seem to see their social role as including provocation.

I always found it interesting that the local media's drive to provoke doesn't extend to investigative journalism. The local press seem content to print whatever the gubmint tells 'em to, without looking any further. Entirely incurious.
pepec
- 2359 posts
January 1, 2011 3:51:08 PM CET

bubbba (Jan 1 2011, 02:43 PM) said: > original post
Jerry Springer sure ain't Shakespeare, but it's erudite compared to trash like "Spuiten & Slikken", where the show's 'guests' would take massive amounts of drugs on TV so the viewers at home could enjoy their antics.

Sure fighting and violence is erudite. But forbid that you hear the word "shit", we can't have that.
fortuner
- 10421 posts
January 1, 2011 4:05:58 PM CET

pepec (Jan 1 2011, 01:21 PM) said: > original post
I guess you never been to Belgium.

I have, may be not on black peter day though... anyway, I expect it's only the Flemish from Flanders in the north with the Dutch influences that have it.
cloggieking
January 1, 2011 4:33:04 PM CET

To be fair, the word f*ck is way more common on HBO than on Dutch TV shows, hell one episode of Dexter with plenty of footage of Deb is enough to meet a quota somewhere

My way of dealing with mofo at work in NL is that I walk up to someone and get in their face, I'm talking about 5 inches and ask 'em whether they are talking 'bout my momma

Dutch upper-class folks will back away from physical confrontation is my experience
bubbba
- 1489 posts
January 1, 2011 4:35:41 PM CET

pepec (Jan 1 2011, 02:51 PM) said: > original post
Sure fighting and violence is erudite. But forbid that you hear the word "shit", we can't have that.

I made a specific comparison. Feel free to misunderstand.
britishtourist
- 285 posts
January 3, 2011 1:31:04 AM CET

What this really all boils down to is the fact that Cloggies who work in The Media are desparate to appear hip n'cool...
And, no better a way to show this in these Gangsta driven days than to use that favourite term of foul-mouthed brothers than m*therf*cker. Whether their editors [also likely to be around the 30-ish mark] give a toss is a mute point. The Dutch have been copyists of the Good Ol' USA for at least the last 40 years or so now, with little [or no] sign of changing....
I pity them to be honest.
Deleted Member
- 5427 posts
January 3, 2011 10:47:33 AM CET

stone (Dec 31 2010, 06:14 PM) said: > original post
Let me show you how it's done:

The Press Complaints Commission
Considers complaints about the editorial content of magazines and newspapers. All complaints must be in writing.
http://www.pcc.org.uk/

BBC
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

ITV
http://www.itv.co.uk/

Channel 4
http://www.channel4.com/

Channel 5
http://www.channel5.co.uk/

BskyB
http://www.sky.com/

Ofcom
If you're not satisfied with complaining to the broadcaster, then try the regulator. Ofcom which handles complaints about programmes on ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5, and digital, satellite and cable TV.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/

New Media Complaints
If the content is believed to be illegal, it can be reported to the Internet Watch Foundation
http://www.iwf.org.uk/

Dear TV channels,
I think the programmes you make are a big pile of fukkin shijt.
Deleted Member
- 5427 posts
January 3, 2011 10:58:34 AM CET

britishtourist (Jan 3 2011, 12:31 AM) said: > original post
What this really all boils down to is the fact that Cloggies who work in The Media are desparate to appear hip n'cool...
And, no better a way to show this in these Gangsta driven days than to use that favourite term of foul-mouthed brothers than m*therf*cker. Whether their editors [also likely to be around the 30-ish mark] give a toss is a mute point. The Dutch have been copyists of the Good Ol' USA for at least the last 40 years or so now, with little [or no] sign of changing....
I pity them to be honest.

I think 'talent'shows and dancing shows are way more offensive than any words could express.
pepec
- 2359 posts
January 3, 2011 12:59:11 PM CET

Dear Mr. Fook, you don't need some counseling because you got confronted with a nasty word?
Deleted Member
- 5427 posts
January 3, 2011 1:31:41 PM CET

pepec (Jan 3 2011, 11:59 AM) said: > original post
Dear Mr. Fook, you don't need some counseling because you got confronted with a nasty word?

I'm more in need of counselling to deal with the dumb arsed celebs being rammed in our faces than for nasty words.
The photo you posted sums this thread up quite perfectly :)
pepec
- 2359 posts
January 3, 2011 3:30:01 PM CET

Now this disturbes me. A picture of a child posing next to a killed fox. (And yes I am sorry for that poor cat.)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...rapped-vet.html

And I remember something similar from a while back:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...hs-14stone.html
korrok
- 572 posts
January 3, 2011 5:21:05 PM CET

pepec (Jan 3 2011, 02:30 PM) said: > original post
Now this disturbes me. A picture of a child posing next to a killed fox. (And yes I am sorry for that poor cat.)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...rapped-vet.html

And I remember something similar from a while back:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...hs-14stone.html

On this one, I have to agree.

Regardless, the use of swear words at most generates a smirk and rolled eyes for me. People should be far, far more concerned at the sickening bias, dramatizations and political agendas found in almost every newspaper you can buy - in this country and in the UK (and probably most of the rest of the world for that matter). That should bother you far more than someone going "hurr durr m*therf*cker".