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pindakaasmetsuiker
February 7, 2009 6:32:21 PM CET

Statement:

The Dutch have a natural feeling of inferiority towards foreigners which explaines their constant need for putting strangers in a social/economical box from where they can adjust their social skills, defending all new buys to friends ("is net zo goed hoor!"), inability to reflecting themselves in reality and not being able to deal with critic.

Is there any truth in this, have your say...
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
February 7, 2009 6:43:10 PM CET

I guess when you're surrounded by other countries bigger and more populous than you are, you fight to be more important and distinct...which you deem as just a matter of ensuring survival. They can never say never after WWII, right?

Especially when you've been taught that once upon a time you were more important on the world stage.
quest
- 934 posts
February 7, 2009 7:39:44 PM CET

I actually think it is a superiority complex (arrogance) towards foreigners. They often act insecure in needing to put everything in a box (not just strangers) to fit in and validate their existence, but that is based on believing that they have a superior culture and think that is a good thing to all act alike in a society.

The not being able to reflect on themselves or handle criticism is also classic superiority complex -- if you come from a superior culture there is nothing to reflect upon or take criticism for.

Superiority and inferiority complex are often found together as different expressions of the same subconscious neurotic need for compensation for feelings of inferiority. So in that sense, you are absolutely right.

It's an endless circle they are in...
pindakaasmetsuiker
February 7, 2009 8:10:21 PM CET

quest (Feb 7 2009, 06:39 PM) said: > original post
I actually think it is a superiority complex (arrogance) towards foreigners. They often act insecure in needing to put everything in a box (not just strangers) to fit in and validate their existence, but that is based on believing that they have a superior culture and think that is a good thing to all act alike in a society.

The not being able to reflect on themselves or handle criticism is also classic superiority complex -- if you come from a superior culture there is nothing to reflect upon or take criticism for.

Superiority and inferiority complex are often found together as different expressions of the same subconscious neurotic need for compensation for feelings of inferiority. So in that sense, you are absolutely right.

It's an endless circle they are in...

I have been in this country long enough to know that the Dutch do occasionally compliment Italian, French and sometimes even German products when being asked. But they are ALWAYS reluctant to compliment anything that is British. (not that British products are superior!!).

Few examples:

Dutch TV slags off English football teams when being succesfull ("ja, veel buitenlanders in het team"). Is it any different in Holland and in the rest of Europe? - NO

English food: "ja, dat is vette hap" - NO. Comparing bacon/eggs or fish/chips is like comparing it to frikandellen en frietje-zuurvlees. Try visiting Britain just once instead of going to the same and safe France every year in that caravan....BORING.

Dutch people who have never tried anything different, always watching and believing the same old rubbish on TV and commenting me at work about British products, realy p@^$ me off.

I sometimes think, "we" should have left them alone 60yrs ago.........
osita
- 2285 posts
February 7, 2009 9:43:23 PM CET

pindakaasmetsuiker (Feb 7 2009, 05:32 PM) said: > original post
The Dutch have a natural feeling of inferiority towards foreigners which explaines their constant need for putting strangers in a social/economical box from where they can adjust their social skills.

Can the same be said about incomers who need to criticise everything about the country because it isn't identical to the enviroment they moved from, and feel the need to dismiss everything about their new surroundings in order to validate their feeling of superiority?

Is there any truth in this? have your say...
leogirl36
February 7, 2009 9:50:19 PM CET

I think they are accutely aware of how small a country Holland is, but good things can come in small packages.

Don't remember English TV slagging off anything Dutch.
pindakaasmetsuiker
February 7, 2009 10:16:57 PM CET

osita (Feb 7 2009, 08:43 PM) said: > original post
Can the same be said about incomers who need to criticise everything about the country because it isn't identical to the enviroment they moved from, and feel the need to dismiss everything about their new surroundings in order to validate their feeling of superiority?

Is there any truth in this? have your say...

Yes, for the newcomer only!
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
February 8, 2009 10:47:26 AM CET

osita (Feb 7 2009, 09:43 PM) said: > original post
Can the same be said about incomers who need to criticise everything about the country because it isn't identical to the enviroment they moved from, and feel the need to dismiss everything about their new surroundings in order to validate their feeling of superiority?

Is there any truth in this? have your say...

Definitely. It's part of culture shock for one. Incomers feel powerless -- their family, business network is gone; everything they've been able to do and know with confidence is challenged; the natural reaction is "It can't be me...I've never had this problem before!"

Of course it goes away eventually...
Deleted Member
- 7373 posts
February 8, 2009 10:58:44 AM CET

pindakaasmetsuiker (Feb 7 2009, 08:10 PM) said: > original post
I have been in this country long enough to know that the Dutch do occasionally compliment Italian, French and sometimes even German products when being asked. But they are ALWAYS reluctant to compliment anything that is British. (not that British products are superior!!).

Funny...not the Dutch I've known and worked with.

When my old company sent me to Cambridge to work for a few months last year, all my Dutch colleagues were envious!

And my Dutchie still dreams of moving to the UK...But has no interest in even visiting France or Italy.

I suspect when you're married to an atypical Dutchie like that, you tend to be able to avoid the stereotypical ones more successfully...(usually by avoiding family parties, in our case! )
emilio416
February 8, 2009 11:30:10 AM CET

pindakaasmetsuiker (Feb 7 2009, 05:32 PM) said: > original post
Statement:

The Dutch have a natural feeling of inferiority towards foreigners which explaines their constant need for putting strangers in a social/economical box from where they can adjust their social skills, defending all new buys to friends ("is net zo goed hoor!"), inability to reflecting themselves in reality and not being able to deal with critic.

Is there any truth in this, have your say...

there is a lot to comment about the Statement, in fact books to write...

Personally I have the feeling that the Dutch feel "better" or "superior" than their neighbours and other "buitenlanders".
They are so damn perfect that it is almost sacrilege to criticise them! Look at what they, as a tiny, tiny nation, have achieved!!! Look at those enormous Dams and Dykes!!! Look at the Biggest Port in the Whole World (now number two, unfortunately...)!!! etc, etc.
Look at their mighty industrial power: Shell, Unilever, DSM, OCE, TomTom, Makro, C&A, Philips, etc..etc..
They feel so proud but try not to show it too much with their calvinistic attitudes.
And because they are so much better than all others (isn't that an Orwellian situation?) they do not accept certificates and diplomas from other countries (only a few exceptions), they do not accept clinical trials by reputed scientists from other countries, etc.

So in fact I agree entirely with Quest.
emilio416
February 8, 2009 11:56:09 AM CET

pindakaasmetsuiker (Feb 7 2009, 07:10 PM) said: > original post
I have been in this country long enough to know that the Dutch do occasionally compliment Italian, French and sometimes even German products when being asked. But they are ALWAYS reluctant to compliment anything that is British. (not that British products are superior!!).

The Dutch also occasionally compliment British products. They are certainly not RELUCTANT as far as scotch is concerned! My Mithra store has more than 50 single malts on offer! And don't forgert Drambuie...
There is UNANIMOUS praise for the quality of TWEED and other cloth made in the Border towns like Hawes. And what about the Sweaters of the Isles, in particular Lewis and Fair Isle?
Never heard compliments for Barbour and Burberrys? Churches? Aga?
The Dutch also name some British foods and candy: Cadbury, Quality Street, Stilton, Wensleydale (even sometimes Caerphilly), Cheddar, Lipton, Pickwick,
Lea&Perrins Worcestershire Sauce, Crosse&Blackwell,
etc.
I think it always depends on the kind of people you meet. If one loves Britain, like I do, one will eventually meet Dutch people who visit the UK every year and who will tell you with much enthusiasm about even such trivial things as hot crossed buns!
tareshen
February 8, 2009 12:56:27 PM CET

Statement:

The Dutch have a natural feeling of inferiority towards foreigners which explaines their constant need for putting strangers in a social/economical box from where they can adjust their social skills, defending all new buys to friends ("is net zo goed hoor!"), inability to reflecting themselves in reality and not being able to deal with critic.

Is there any truth in this, have your say...

Well, beyond the poor grammar, there isn't a grain of truth in this statement at all. In fact, it's the most ludicrous statement I've heard in a while. I'd say that describes Americans more than Dutch.

And because they are so much better than all others (isn't that an Orwellian situation?) they do not accept certificates and diplomas from other countries (only a few exceptions), they do not accept clinical trials by reputed scientists from other countries, etc.

America does not accept certificates or diplomas from other countries, with very few exceptions. America does not accept clinical trials from other countries, either. So, what exactly is your point?

Frankly, I appreciate the more common attitude of 'You're American? Tell me how cool it is to live there.' of Dutchies. I'm rather tired of the '*sniff* Colonial' attitude that comes all too often from Brits.

I've had Dutch neighbors and foreign neighbors. From my Dutch neighbors, I can expect that someone will watch my cats while we're on holiday, invitations for drinks, cookouts in the summer, birthday cards and little presents for the kids and street parties. From the foreign neighbors, I can expect unkempt gardens, antisocial behavior, and basic batshit insanity.

With my Dutch neighbors, we all worked together to build the fences, fairly shared the costs and ate together that evening. Same for laying the sod. When we first moved in, we were trying to get our washer up to the attic. Without the help of our Dutch neighbor, it wouldn't have happened. All that happened when we had a Danish/Romanian couple for neighbors was they left our back door open the whole day while they were off somewhere with his family. No apology, no sorry, they just acted like it was somehow my fault that I was angry. That and the Romanian chick finding it necessary to stand in the back garden holding conversations consisting mainly of 'mofo this and mofo that' at high volume while everyone's kids were out playing. Lovely times that was.
pindakaasmetsuiker
February 8, 2009 6:15:49 PM CET

tareshen (Feb 8 2009, 11:56 AM) said: > original post
America does not accept certificates or diplomas from other countries, with very few exceptions. America does not accept clinical trials from other countries, either. So, what exactly is your point?

That's a fact
papasutra
- 786 posts
February 8, 2009 7:38:34 PM CET

tareshen (Feb 8 2009, 12:56 PM) said: > original post
America does not accept certificates or diplomas from other countries, with very few exceptions. America does not accept clinical trials from other countries, either. So, what exactly is your point?

Rather, the Dutch see their diploma system as superior to the US's for example. The Dutch higher educational system is over rated and is being revamped. The Dutch university education system is being restructured along the American-Anglo model.

A time back, a Dutch friend of mine was told by a Dutch advisor that it would be applicable for him to say that he had a Bachelor's degree when applying at a American company in the US even though he only had a Dutch HBO. The US company required at least a Bachelor's degree. A Dutch HBO is not a University Bachelor's degree. The Dutch also equated their Doctorandus title to that of a Master's degree in the US - which it is not.

I also find the Dutch hertentamen odd and peculiar.
pindakaasmetsuiker
February 8, 2009 11:46:58 PM CET

papasutra (Feb 8 2009, 06:38 PM) said: > original post
Rather, the Dutch see their diploma system as superior to the US's for example. The Dutch higher educational system is over rated and is being revamped. The Dutch university education system is being restructured along the American-Anglo model.

A time back, a Dutch friend of mine was told by a Dutch advisor that it would be applicable for him to say that he had a Bachelor's degree when applying at a American company in the US even though he only had a Dutch HBO. The US company required at least a Bachelor's degree. A Dutch HBO is not a University Bachelor's degree. The Dutch also equated their Doctorandus title to that of a Master's degree in the US - which it is not.

I also find the Dutch hertentamen odd and peculiar.

Dutch educational system is overrated: That is a fact.

It's getting worse....
mvn
- 3960 posts
February 9, 2009 12:14:16 AM CET

pindakaasmetsuiker (Feb 8 2009, 11:46 PM) said: > original post
Dutch educational system is overrated: That is a fact.

It's getting worse....

pindakaas
i presume you like this peanut butter with sugar product?
osita
- 2285 posts
February 9, 2009 12:25:08 AM CET

pindakaasmetsuiker (Feb 8 2009, 10:46 PM) said: > original post
It's getting worse....

Being frank Pindakaas, anyone can have a bad time here. Every expat has bad days: days when they wish they hadn't got out of bed because everything from a broken shower to a bad hair day to needing to translate 10 letters on an online translator, then an argument with the boss in the afternoon or disputing a bill over the phone, followed by kids giving you stress when you get home...

but your posts imply you never have anything good to say about anything here. I really don't think you need a forum - although on any given day you will find someone to agree with your vitriolic attacks on anything and everything Dutch. The fact is that most of us have average-to-good days most of the time, but you dont seem to have found any peace of mind? Why are you here? Are you even here? Because you might have such terrible culture shock that you can't see beyond it and maybe you need something more 'professional' than a sympathetic ear - for your own sake?
emilio416
February 9, 2009 1:52:57 AM CET

pindakaasmetsuiker (Feb 8 2009, 10:46 PM) said: > original post
Dutch educational system is overrated: That is a fact.

It's getting worse....

You are absolutely right! That's probably why, for such an insignificant country, they have such a large number of Nobel Prize winners in physics, mathematics and other sciences...
You really lult door je nek.
papasutra
- 786 posts
February 9, 2009 10:03:35 AM CET

emilio416 (Feb 9 2009, 01:52 AM) said: > original post
You are absolutely right! That's probably why, for such an insignificant country, they have such a large number of Nobel Prize winners in physics, mathematics and other sciences...
You really lult door je nek.

Snap out of it emilio! Your Dutch apologetics is making me throw up in my mouth
cloggieking
February 9, 2009 10:56:22 AM CET

Like every other day it's raining and like Clint Black I never liked the rain, that very same rain is what I'm going to hold against every dang wooden person I meet today till supper.
emilio416
February 9, 2009 12:59:38 PM CET

papasutra (Feb 9 2009, 09:03 AM) said: > original post
Snap out of it emilio! Your Dutch apologetics is making me throw up in my mouth

It's not my problem that you can't stand the truth, I mean the FACTS! Btw, aren't you a little bit overreacting?
fortuner
- 10421 posts
February 9, 2009 1:31:32 PM CET

pindakaasmetsuiker (Feb 7 2009, 07:10 PM) said: > original post
But they are ALWAYS reluctant to compliment anything that is British. (not that British products are superior!!).

Yes, I've come across this myself more than a few times... but I still wouldn't tar the whole nation with the same brush.
monkeynuts
- 1415 posts
February 9, 2009 1:42:21 PM CET

I do remember how shocked I was when a while back I was attending a drinks do and speaking in English to some Dutch friends, when a Dutch couple approached me to say how they loved travelling to the UK each year and what wonderful polite people they had come across. I actually felt really embrassed and tried to say not everybody was polite and they must have been lucky. What a weird reversal!

I soon got a reality check when later on in the evening I was verbally attacked by some guy saying I should speak Dutch at all times.

Ho hum.
illuminatus
- 1298 posts
February 9, 2009 4:02:40 PM CET

monkeynuts (Feb 9 2009, 12:42 PM) said: > original post
I do remember how shocked I was when a while back I was attending a drinks do and speaking in English to some Dutch friends, when a Dutch couple approached me to say how they loved travelling to the UK each year and what wonderful polite people they had come across. I actually felt really embrassed and tried to say not everybody was polite and they must have been lucky. What a weird reversal!

I soon got a reality check when later on in the evening I was verbally attacked by some guy saying I should speak Dutch at all times.

Ho hum.

"speaking to some Dutch friends"

Wow, I didn't think it was actually possible, that's quite an achievement.

Anyway, you should be really grateful & happy to have such 'rare & unique' friends. A truly enlightening experience I must say.
papasutra
- 786 posts
February 9, 2009 5:09:11 PM CET

emilio416 (Feb 9 2009, 12:59 PM) said: > original post
It's not my problem that you can't stand the truth, I mean the FACTS! Btw, aren't you a little bit overreacting?

emilio...I AM the facts.

Disappointed? Yes, in you...once again.

Me, overreact!? Never.